mitchman

Just as an added piece of info. Most people are very surprised at how much a good quality shock "stiffens" up the roll rate of their car.

I've autocrossed in the stock classes for almost 20 years now. I'm always amazed by the amount you can stiffen a suspension with only a change of shocks (not springs/swaybars). I just put Mazdaspeed adjustable shocks on my '03 Protege. It has no other modifications, but it's so stiff on the highest setting, it felt like it didn't have any suspension. The good news is, I adjusted it to the lowest setting and it's not much firmer than stock. But the body roll is A LOT more controlled. The body doesn't dive under braking anymore or sway much in the corner.

The negative of course is that you can't lower and corner weight your suspension like you can do with coilovers.

I agree that the best way to go is good quality ADJUSTABLE shocks and lowering springs. Verses going with full coilovers. They're a lot more streetable. But if you want the ultimate, coil overs are the best because you can corner weight the car for the most predictable handleing.
--
Mitch (just one more weekend before the Protege's first autocross!)

tom grossmann

Mitch for an experianced Autocrosser such as yourself adjustable shocks are great but for street I always recommend a good non-adjustable set matched to the springs.
Reason being is at almost every track day and Autocross School I get at least one student brand new to performance driving who has the shocks cranked near full stiff. Last weekend I was sitting at lunch with a group of students and one mentioned his Turbo MR2 kept trying to spin on the bumps in turn 2...my first question was "do you have adjustable shocks" , he did. Next question what are they set on - 10 of 13. I told him to put the on 3 and he was amazed to find himself going 5 mph faster. Same thing at last Fall's Autocross school . Riding with a Miata driver and the car skates through corners at about 3-4 mph slower then it should be.....sure enough shocks way stiff. Get him to soften up the suspension and he was amazed at how much harder the car cornered. With the shocks super stiff you get that instantaneous feed back that "feels" great but is actually quite a bit slower. So for street guys I just recommend a complete set , as an engineer has figured out everything and that way you get the nice look / ride plus excellent handling.

Tom

mitchman

Yeah, I guess I'm speaking too much from a competition stand point. But I still think adjustability is good if you understand how to use it. I really like being able to "crank up" the shocks for serious stuff (but not all the way up!) and still soften them for everyday use. It kind of makes the car a dual purpose car. Daily driver by day....race car by night!

The SCCA Solo2 stock classes are funny. Because you can't modify the suspension in anyway (except for shocks and a front sway bar), we have to use shocks to do the work of what springs should be doing. In my case, really stiff rear shock settings to get the car to rotate.

We'll see what happens in 2 weeks! This will be the first time I've raced (owned) a FWD autocross car in years!
--
Mitch

tom grossmann

Mitch I fear we 've hijacked this thread but you are absolutely right about the dual purpose aspect of adjustable shocks and knowing what to do with them.
For the old Datsun race car I have non-adjustable bars and Tokico greens for the struts(coil overs) but for the rear I have an old set of Koni adjustables. I fine tune the handling with the shocks and if it rains I just disconnect the rear bar. There is a guy named Tom Neeley who builds tube frame (National Winners) GT cars , he had an old 510 GT4 car there was very little on the car to adjust and the car ran well , he only ran a couple of tracks. For an Autocrosser the track changes every event!!

Tom

amrit

"hijacked this thread" LOL

anyway...

tom and mitch, since you guys seem to know alot on the subject would you mind givin' me advice on what i should go with?

i wanna use the tein s springs, but what shocks should i go with?
stock, adjustable, non-adjustable and what's a decent brand that gives good quality on what it's supposed to be made for?

mitchman

I'd love to say KONI Sports (yellow), but unfortunatly they don't make them for Protege's (double check that though). So my second choice would be between Tokico Illuminas (white) and the Mazdaspeed (lime green) shocks. I choose the Mazdaspeed because they are stiffer than the Tokicos (at the stiffest setting) and they don't raise your ride height like the Tokico do (do to to much gas pressure).

Also check that the Tokico's adjusters for the rear shocks are on the OUTSIDE of the shock body. The Illumina's I used to run on my CRX were on the top of the shock shaft. This will create problem when you want to adjust the rear shocks. (but they may be different on the Illumina's for the Protege)

If you're interested in the Mazdaspeed shocks, act fast. I bought the last set from SR Motorsports (at least that's what they told me) and Cork Sport only had one set left as well.

When set to the softest setting the Mazdaspeed's give a slightly firmer ride than my shock 44,000 mile shocks. I've never used the Illuminas on my Protege.

If you want to save money, the Tokico HP Plus (blue) would be a good choice, but they aren't adjustable. In my opinion, save you're money and get the adjustables. It's fun to transform your car from RACE to Cadillac.

getshorto

Can we like talk about something Organic chem so I can feel smart for once? Haha. Seriously tho, I am so jealous of everyone that knows about cars, and has the time and moeny ot work on them. I finally get 4 months off, but I have to leave my Protege 4000 km's away from me. Is there anything I should do to it before I store it for 4 months?

And to stay on the top of shocks, I would get the lime green ones...

mitchman

I would recommend putting a battery "maintainer" on the battery from a company like this:http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12v_1a.htm

You could also squirt some motor oil into the cylindars before you start it (pull the plugs, squirt in some oil, replace the plugs, start car, watch smoke come out of exhaust)

Fuel stabilzer is another thing you might consider. But I've never worried about and I've never had problems. But then I always use Chevron gas (any name brand gas should work).

amrit

hey guys are struts and shocks the same thing, i'm confused

cause this is what i saw on corksport but they called them struts.
http://www.corksport.com/content/00/...ges/480833.jpg

and they have them as: MAZDASPEED Adjustable struts ea.
and they come with all 4 right, front and back?

mitchman

Yeah those are struts. It used to be that when people said "shocks" they meant the the kind that didn't have a coil spring around them. Like you would find on the rear suspension of most pickups. The "shocks" are independent of the springs. "Struts" usually meant that they were located inside a coil spring....just like on the Protege. This is called a McPherson Strut Suspension. But like everything, the lines have blurred. Now people use the words interchangably. No big deal. That's why they have photographs so you know what you're buying.

Yeah, with the Mazdaspeed shocks, you buy them one at a time ($225 each). Adjustable shocks aint cheap! I know many autocrossers who will spend $3000-$4000 on shocks.....crazy! SR Motorsports had them for $200 each.

http://www.srmotorsports.com/Mazda_P...ion_Parts.html

But now they're selling "Performance Gas Shocks" for $399 for a set of four. The picture shows the Mazdaspeed shocks which is missleading as I don't think that's what they're selling. But you could always ask! (you'd be getting a fantasic deal!)

NOTE: If you decide to go with the Mazdaspeed shocks you're going to need shorter front swaybar links. The Mazdaspeed shocks change the front swaybar mounting point so they are the same height as the rear. So you can either buy a set up OEM rear swaybar links or you could buy some AWR adjustable links. Just make sure you buy the REAR links to use on the fronts. (Don't ask how I know this!)

http://www.awrracing.com/store/produ...products_id=50

amrit

whoa! those things are expensive (the struts), now i'm considering to just use my stock shocks/struts with the Tein S Springs.

mitchman

(sigh) How many miles are on your car? If it's over 40,000 you shocks are probably not doing much anymore. You could just get Tokico HP+ (blue) shocks. They are much cheaper.

But, money is money....I understand.

Just promise me you'll do shocks next.
--
Mitch

Phantom Cruiser

I like being able to adjust the Tokico Illuminas (w/matched Eibach springs) on the Miata. That way I don't have to get 'beat up' all the time with them on set on stiff!

Someday I'm going to fix my P5's suspension dilemmas...but for now I'm actually glad I got the coilovers because I have had to adjust them from moving between the 16s/17s/18s. They do tend to clunk over bumps in a straight line, but I have had no issues with cornering.

amrit

Oh it's definitely over 40,000. More like a little over 160,000.
But I can see where I should change them, hopefully if i get enough cash, I'll do them. Right now I'm tryin' to save up for a major cosmetic upgrade.

tom grossmann

Sorry for the late posting , I was at the Kart Track this weekend.
My pick would be the tokico blue , not rock hard but they will do the job. I would put the shocks and springs on before cosmetics , this is of course provided the car doesn't look like hell.
As Mitch and others have said the adjustables are nice you just need to know a little about shocks....oh and of course they really should be called Dampers .....as that's what they do.

Tom