Sick of Protege engine-bashing (automotive press)
February-21st-2003, 09:26 PM
#31
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
Originally posted by TheMAN
the "half assed"engineering is due to economics... do you want to pay $30000 for a protege with a NEW engine just like you would for a cheap bimmer?
the "half assed"engineering is due to economics... do you want to pay $30000 for a protege with a NEW engine just like you would for a cheap bimmer?
February-21st-2003, 10:52 PM
#33
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Winter Park, Fl.
Posts: 200
What press are you guys talking about anyway? What the hell is Consumer Alert(or what ever the hell that site was) anyway. When I was researching the P5 before I bought it all I read was great reviews in magazines like Consumer Reports (I guess you've never heard of that zine 
) and Car and Driver where the P5 beat out all the other compact sport wagons (Matrix, Ario(sp?) etc.). And lets not discount the shootout in December's(I think) issue of Sport Compact Car where the MSP beat the Golf Gti, Spec-V, and Civic-si (they didn't even bother to put the Corolla S in there.) Sure the P5 is only rated at 130hp but it's alwys been enough to get me to 60 before the end of the on-ramp and I have no problem passing some one at 70. And I'm sure it will last 100,000 miles or more so quit your belly achin' or get a new car already.
) and Car and Driver where the P5 beat out all the other compact sport wagons (Matrix, Ario(sp?) etc.). And lets not discount the shootout in December's(I think) issue of Sport Compact Car where the MSP beat the Golf Gti, Spec-V, and Civic-si (they didn't even bother to put the Corolla S in there.) Sure the P5 is only rated at 130hp but it's alwys been enough to get me to 60 before the end of the on-ramp and I have no problem passing some one at 70. And I'm sure it will last 100,000 miles or more so quit your belly achin' or get a new car already.
February-22nd-2003, 12:43 AM
#34
WiCky=))
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
quote: "I like Zoom Zoom. But its cheaper to put a suspension upgrade on a bad handling car than it is to replace a thrown together engine with absurdly crappy emissions design."
Wow, this must be the finest piece of nonsense I've heard in years!
Why do Proteges bag so many top finishs in races then? Because a car starts and ends with the chassis. You can put whatever suspension upgrade on a Cavalier for instance, with it's non independent (read: Torsion Beam) suspension and it will still handle worse than a Pro.
Handling is not only the lack of body roll, or cornering flat, it's how the car drives. And a Protege DOES drive well.
What are BMWs praised most for..Yup...the chassis.
People were complaining the MP3 was underpowered, but Mazda slapped on a turbocharger and all problems associated with the FS-DE were suddenly gone. I can do the same by purchasing the BEGI turbo kit for 4K. That's easy.
Now try to make a Cavalier handling like a Protege. How do you do that? Firming up the springs and dampers will do jack ****. It's the chassis and always the chassis.
So which is cheaper now? To put a suspension upgarde of a bad handling car? Or to to replace a thrown together engine with crappy emissions design?
And you claim the Accord is so much better than the Mazda6? Did you know that the Mazda6 has earned around 100 awards for the car by automotive magazines?
I guess the 20hp and better fuel economy didn't win those automotive authorities.
Wow, this must be the finest piece of nonsense I've heard in years!
Why do Proteges bag so many top finishs in races then? Because a car starts and ends with the chassis. You can put whatever suspension upgrade on a Cavalier for instance, with it's non independent (read: Torsion Beam) suspension and it will still handle worse than a Pro.
Handling is not only the lack of body roll, or cornering flat, it's how the car drives. And a Protege DOES drive well.
What are BMWs praised most for..Yup...the chassis.
People were complaining the MP3 was underpowered, but Mazda slapped on a turbocharger and all problems associated with the FS-DE were suddenly gone. I can do the same by purchasing the BEGI turbo kit for 4K. That's easy.
Now try to make a Cavalier handling like a Protege. How do you do that? Firming up the springs and dampers will do jack ****. It's the chassis and always the chassis.
So which is cheaper now? To put a suspension upgarde of a bad handling car? Or to to replace a thrown together engine with crappy emissions design?
And you claim the Accord is so much better than the Mazda6? Did you know that the Mazda6 has earned around 100 awards for the car by automotive magazines?
I guess the 20hp and better fuel economy didn't win those automotive authorities.
February-22nd-2003, 01:24 AM
#35
Clean-Up Crew
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pleasure Point, Ca.
Posts: 2,360
Not to mention that it's the best looking car in it's class!
Those are a lot of good points that you've made...and here's one more: The Protege is the best looking car in it's class. No other sub $18,000 car can touch it's styling.
Styling is what attracted me, handling is what sold me and refinement is what keeps me smiling.
Those are a lot of good points that you've made...and here's one more: The Protege is the best looking car in it's class. No other sub $18,000 car can touch it's styling.
Styling is what attracted me, handling is what sold me and refinement is what keeps me smiling.
February-22nd-2003, 10:44 AM
#36
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 25
I think my P5 has a sweet sounding engine. The problem I have with it is a lack of power. But the handling makes up for that in a lot of ways. Next to my son's Neon R/T, the P5 is the best handling front driver I have owned. And the Neon is about 300 lbs. lighter, so it should have an advantage.
Now to talk about rough sounding engines is to talk about the Neon. It's an all aluminum DOHC that's not exactly a technical wonder. Plus, the quality is not all that good. It has 62,000 miles and already has oil in one of the cylinders when I changed the spark plugs.
If the aftermarket would come up with more go fast products, I think the Protege would become much more popular. My P5 needs about 40 more horsepower to complete my fun factor requirements.
Now to talk about rough sounding engines is to talk about the Neon. It's an all aluminum DOHC that's not exactly a technical wonder. Plus, the quality is not all that good. It has 62,000 miles and already has oil in one of the cylinders when I changed the spark plugs.
If the aftermarket would come up with more go fast products, I think the Protege would become much more popular. My P5 needs about 40 more horsepower to complete my fun factor requirements.
February-22nd-2003, 11:50 AM
#38
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 34
Too bad Mazda didn't give the FS-DE slightly more static compression. While that would only give a marginal hp increase it would also increase gas mileage at the same time (9.5:1 would be easy to maintain on 87 octane, I'm sure).
Putting that MZR engine in the protege would probably drive the price up nearly as much as the mazdaspeed protege.
Putting that MZR engine in the protege would probably drive the price up nearly as much as the mazdaspeed protege.
February-24th-2003, 10:35 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 265
Originally posted by TheMAN
wow.. people care about numbers so much versus actual real world performance
wow.. people care about numbers so much versus actual real world performance
February-24th-2003, 11:50 AM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 77
No, I must disagree
My Pro has too much torque in the snow...even with snow tires. How dare Mazda make such a torquey engine, especially combined with the short gearing...you would think they want me to do nothing but spin my tires in the snow. I wish I had a high revving, useful only for the track, or at 9,000 rpms, but great in the snow because I can't break the front tires loose with my anemic 4 ft/lb of torque at 1,000 rpm engine.
C'mon people, horsepower sells cars, but that is all. Give me an engine with a linear power band, that has useful torque, and I'll be happy. You can only drive so fast on the public roads anyway.
Yes, I would like more power from time to time, but this car holds it's own with anything else in it's price range with a minimum of 4 doors. Is it the fastest? No, but it is a driveable car, with good handling, brakes, comfy interior, etc.
By the way, I like the noise the engine makes too
I know, I must be crazy to enjoy engine noise.
Friggin snow
C'mon people, horsepower sells cars, but that is all. Give me an engine with a linear power band, that has useful torque, and I'll be happy. You can only drive so fast on the public roads anyway.
Yes, I would like more power from time to time, but this car holds it's own with anything else in it's price range with a minimum of 4 doors. Is it the fastest? No, but it is a driveable car, with good handling, brakes, comfy interior, etc.
By the way, I like the noise the engine makes too
I know, I must be crazy to enjoy engine noise.Friggin snow
February-24th-2003, 11:51 AM
#41
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 34
quote:
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Originally posted by TheMAN
wow.. people care about numbers so much versus actual real world performance
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Word. It's like the so-called amateur "audiophile" bozos who go into a hi-fi store and ask about watts and hertz instead just listening and finding a sound system they like.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TheMAN
wow.. people care about numbers so much versus actual real world performance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word. It's like the so-called amateur "audiophile" bozos who go into a hi-fi store and ask about watts and hertz instead just listening and finding a sound system they like.
Join the SCCA or call up the local chapter so you can participate in a solo II event at least once. Then you'll understand that there is more to it than numbers (hey, in my mirage I've turned in better times than corvettes, twin turbo supras, gs-t and gsx eclipses...this was when I was still in stock class on 14X5.5 wheels).
February-24th-2003, 12:31 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 265
Re: No, I must disagree
Originally posted by KHH
My Pro has too much torque in the snow...even with snow tires. How dare Mazda make such a torquey engine, especially combined with the short gearing...you would think they want me to do nothing but spin my tires in the snow. I wish I had a high revving, useful only for the track, or at 9,000 rpms, but great in the snow because I can't break the front tires loose with my anemic 4 ft/lb of torque at 1,000 rpm engine.
My Pro has too much torque in the snow...even with snow tires. How dare Mazda make such a torquey engine, especially combined with the short gearing...you would think they want me to do nothing but spin my tires in the snow. I wish I had a high revving, useful only for the track, or at 9,000 rpms, but great in the snow because I can't break the front tires loose with my anemic 4 ft/lb of torque at 1,000 rpm engine.
Try not to use first gear in snow. Start from second and feather your clutch. That should help. Budget Traction Control.
February-24th-2003, 12:44 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 77
I know
Actually, I was just being a smart ***. Just trying to point out that people complain about everything, even things (like snow) that Mazda has no control over. But thanks anyway. Driving in the snow doesn't bother me, and 2nd gear works pretty well for starts!
February-24th-2003, 07:51 PM
#45
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 31
I've got two Mazdas, 2001SE Miata and 2002 P5. Engines are night and day different although they share a lot in common. The P5 engine is great for it's low end torque. No need to shift above 5500 rpm whereas the Miata is set-up for banging on the red line. Like many others, I like to hear my engine/exhaust. Matter of fact, I consider my '97 Maxima SE 5-speed too quiet below 3500 rpms.
I'm a long way from proving it, but I've got a feeling with both these Mazda engine/transmissions, that with Mobil 1 in the engine and OEM filters and Redline MT-90 in the tranny, not abused, they're good to go for a minimum of 250k miles.
I'm a long way from proving it, but I've got a feeling with both these Mazda engine/transmissions, that with Mobil 1 in the engine and OEM filters and Redline MT-90 in the tranny, not abused, they're good to go for a minimum of 250k miles.