Sick of Protege engine-bashing (automotive press)
 

WTF, I have read in Consumer Guide (http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/n...m/id/20544.htm) and other sources that the Protege is supposedly underpowered. Give me a break!! A DX auto Protege is just as quick as a frigging overpriced EX auto Civic. It's also quicker than an LX Civic, you know, the one that YOU CAN'T EVEN GET ABS BRAKES ON (stupid Honda optioning!!). And as far as safety, the Civic gets better offset-crash scores than Protege, but it is also 130-180 pounds LIGHTER (give or take) than a Pro, depending on which model/options you get. Weight is one of the most important safety factors.

So what if our 2.0L engines are 11-13 years old in design. You want a car to pick on, how about the goddamn 2.0L JETTA or GOLF? These things are SO damn slow, especially the automatics. The new 2.0L Beetle Convertible does 0-60 in a wonderful 12 seconds. Why do these crappy 8-valve cars get off the hook? because they're German, and supposedly more "honky-yuppified" and above reproach?? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

Thanks. Needed that. Love ya.

Relax dude. Take some deep breaths. :)

There's no point getting pissed over such things. They can say whatever they want. The important thing is that you have your Protege and you love it. :)

The fact is that many of us here think that it would be better if we had slightly more power (check some of the "what do u like/dislike about your pro?" threads).
If we had the 170hp versions that they are selling in Japan, it would be perfect!

yeh yeh fine douggie.....up my dosage, anger management, etc.

I do love my protege. Just felt like representing, is all. Peace.

just to add to the original post, VW's are made in mexico now LOL

jetta's and beetles are shit, they are overweight (3000+lbs) don't have much interior room, slow as hell, shitty gas millage, low HP and TQ, bad interior design, and they cost fukin 8 grand CAD more than the other ones in the same class

Thats funny about the bad interiors. I guess thats why journalists are always comparing other cars to the interiors of the VW products.

The interiors in VWs are quite nice and of high quality. The problem I think everyone has with them is the slight ergonomic problems. HVAC controls down low, poor cupholders, etc. Also they are known rattle-traps.

VW does make some good engines. I'd love to stuff a 1.8T into my Pro. Super mod-friendly. It even has plenty of power straight from the factory. The 2.0, though, is old, outdated, burns oil, wastes gas, and unrefined. Bah.

Just make sure you opt a 1.8T w/ the new coils. LMAO! What a mess they've got there.

dont bash VW just because our cars are slow. i kinda regret not getting a 1.8t, and i plan on getting one soon. they are just better cars and you gotta accept that. the media will bash proteges, and we just gotta take it. our cars are slow and theres not much you can do about it. if it bothers you that much get a faster car.

My point is that a 2.0L VW is much SLOWER than a Protege, costs more, is less reliable, and yet people ignore this because it's, well, "German" and yuppified, and that makes it all OK. A 1.8T is faster than a Pro, but also costs much more, so it goddamn well should be faster and better. No extra credit there.

Joe you are totally right. But at the same time Mazda should be stickin some more power into these things to try to complete the whole package. Bring in some from JAPAN. those babies fly.

Weak Engines
 

Sorry that article pissed you off, JoeT. I've long made known my stance when it comes to the FS-DE; I think it sucks.

I've never been a racer/ricer by any means-- I'm just an average fellow who can appreciate a powerful engine, but generally doesn't drive that fast, anyway, and more appreciate efficiency, quiet operation, and reliability. The current engine in the Protege only delivers ONE desirable characteristic: Reliability.

Aside from that, this engine is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design. It's got an outdated, heavy-ass iron block (compared to offerings from other mainstream Japanese auto makers) and no variable valve timing whatsoever. I've always been offended that Mazda has been satisfied keeping it in the Protege when this car deserves so much better, as do the people who have supported Mazda by buying their products.

And for all you naysayers who are going to get all pissy because I'm ripping on the FS-DE, you should consider that there's a reason this engine will be dropped by Mazda when the next generation Protege/Mazda3 comes out, and it's not because they're simply bored of it: This engine can't compete against those engines offered by, for instance, Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. The FS-DE is noisier, less efficient, and heavier than it should be, especially given that, for Christ sake, we're in the 21st Century, dammit. Consider the engine in the current generation Corolla-- It's a 1.8 liter that delivers the same horsepower as the Protege yet delivers 40 MPG on the highway. I'm not saying the Corolla is the ultimate car, but put THAT engine in the Protege and I'd be happy. THAT'S what the Protege should be delivering, but isn't. Why? Because nearly everyone else has moved on to better engines while Mazda hasn't. It's a simple as that.

Every time I fire up my Protege in the morning I can't say I enjoy listening to the sounds of a diesel engine-- And that's what it sounds like, you all know it: That VTCS rattle. I find it embarrassing, personally. Even after warming up the engine is always noisy.

I actually still enjoy driving the Protege around town-- I feel it's a reasonably zippy car, and many of us are familiar with how well it handles. That said, I honestly don't like the engine for all the reasons outlined above. I'll be glad to see it retired-- Good riddance. It should have been done 5 years ago.

Have you taken your Pro in for the "fix"?

While the FS-DE may not be the best engine in the world, I don't think that expectations of 40MPG and 250 plus horsepower at the same time are possible. Keep things in perspective. The 1.8T VW doesn't get great gas mileage, either but that's because it has 180 horsepower and a turbo.

OK TheMan, we are of one mind in this regard.
I drove the Corolla. Engine output comparable, better mileage, but noisy as FRIG-ALL under hard accelleration. If one likes quiet operation, I can't see him/her choosing the Corolla.
By the way, the rear suspension on Corolla, speaking of backward technology, eats large rhino nuts. I came out of a sharp turn while test-driving, and the car was very wavy. There was also a large dead center-spot in the steering that totally turned me off.

Oh yeah, I test drove the Corolla last year and I was suprised at how rough the engine was. My friends 93 Corolla was way smoother that that (maybe the engine is hasn't been broken in, but still didn't expect that kind of roughness from a new car).

As for driving sensation. The Corolla was like a$$. I didn't feel the fun in driving it at all for the entire test drive session.

Just realized that now we're bashing some other cars just to make us feel better... :)

My dad has a 02 Golf TDI, the other day we're in the garage trying to change his low beam headlight bulb. Except that he can't get at it, So I decide to read the owners manual to see what it says, and it tells you to take the car to the dealer and have them do it. I started to laugh.
VW's perceived quality is a left over from when they were actually built in germany, My dad's golf is built in Brazil (?) and has been in for warranty work twice in 30,000km, my pro5 hasn't been in once in 35,000km.

I Respectfully Disagree
 

When the MZR engines are introduced to the Protégé/Mazda3 line, I think you’ll find no one complaining about “How the old engine could take a lot more abuse than the new ones can”. More likely, I think you’ll notice people talking about how much more powerful, quieter, more refined, and efficient it is. No one will be crying about the demise of the FS-DE, nor will they miss it.

The modern engine designs currently offered by Toyota, Honda and Nissan are better engines in nearly every way. You think the high volume Japanese auto makers would all switch to aluminum engines because they’re worse than the older designs? Hell no! They’ve done it because these engines are better, period.

Notice how many people ask about, “Hey, would the MZR fit in my current Pro?”. Notice how many people speak of it’s superior power output, noted smoother operation, and better efficiency? I think that should say something about the current engines in the Protégé: People notice that this engine is behind similar class offerings in pretty much every single way. I find that reality condescending.

The FS-DE is an old-ass engine. All the other mainstream Japanese auto makers have moved on to better things, while Mazda still hasn’t. They’re behind in the game, and we’re the lesser for it. This bothers me, and I speak of it so frequently because I feel greatness is being squandered. I honestly feel the current engine has stolen the potential for true competitive distinction in the Protege. While we have advantages in other areas, such as perhaps handling and appearance, there's nothing wrong with suggesting that we'd be better off with a more rounded package. It's true, we would be.

And regarding noise, you think Protege doesn't also sound loud under hard acceleration? That's insane!

Anyway, this isn't meant to argue with anyone. I'm just saying bring on the MZR's and let's leave yesterday behind, already. I mean, shit.

Corolla? I would consider this car, and indeed have been considering it. What I don't like are it's appearance and the fact that you can't get rear disc brakes in any trim level. I consider disc brakes on all four wheels an indispensable safety feature and will not tolerate a car that doesn't have it. Reliability and safety are critically important to me-- Any car I buy must have at least a 'better than average' reliability record, it must have at least side impact airbags, 4-wheel disc brakes, and reasonable crash test results. Corolla ain't it.

I test drove the Camry and the corrolla before i purchased my mp5 and i must tell you those thing cannot handle turns for Sh*T the engines maybe quick but what good is speed if you cannot keep the car on the road!

MP5 was underpowered but as soon as i threw on my NX Kit all that went out the window:D

Chas

I am with acid on that. What is the point of being fast if you cant keep the car reasonably on the ground. PLus you can only go so fast before getting in trouble. Some cars you hit the speed limit in quicker. I already have 3 speeding tickets dotn need anymore.

I gotta agree. If you don't like the car (the engine being a major part of your car) why'd you buy it in the first place? Go buy a Corolla if you're not happy. I can't think of a more boring non-descript car. But hey, at least the engine is newly designed.

I used to bag on the build quality on my Trans Am for while, then I got over it and accepted for what it was; inexpensive, reliable, good handling, and fast transportation.

But I suppose the LT-1 was old and low-tech... :rolleyes:

hey,

theres ppl like me who stand right beside their Pro!

:blue:

*hehehe, sorry for all the grammars errors
me french canadian :D

I must agree with the corolla comment my 00 chevy prizm has the 1.8 doch 16 valve vvti (comes in the mr2 and celica also) and its very peppy and great on gas.. too bad the rest of the car is chevy and half the shit is broken already (doorhandle cup holders cd player clock). And right before we traded it in the door opened on me and almost killed a lady getting into her car. Then i slammed it and it wouldnt open :rolleyes: reguardless why didnt they keep the 1.8 in them? i know the new mazdas are coming out with a form of vtec/vvti :) ..Jon

Well that sucks for corolla drivers lol. I would blame it on my brother who took it 100 feet into the woods and swamp at 90. But that wouldn't effect the insides of tha car. The entire shell got replaced. Jon

This is what I hear when I rev my Protege5, a mellow exhaust note down low which is accompanied by a high pitched engine whine up high when the intake runners switch from long and narrow to short and wide.

Even when I'm outside the car and my brother is driving it away when he needs it, I find the sound to be much more "refined" than any Corolla. The engine sounds are solid, a bit bassy, unlike the terrible hissing sound with the 1ZZ-FE.

My gf has a 2002 Corolla S, the power is decent,it lacks some low rev torque though comapared to the Pro. The engine sounds rough though as with other Corollas, my gf and brother and I all agree on this. The taller gearing on the Corolla lead to less noisy cruising at highway speeds, but it doesn't mean the engine is quieter, it simply is at lower revs, simple as that.

Alright, if you, ProtegeMaster insist the Pro sounds noisier, did you ever consider the quality of the noise? A F360 Modena is noisy, noisier than any econobox, but no one seems to complain about the noise it makes. Why? It's how the noise sounds.
In the same way mentioned above, even if my Pro is loud, which I think it isn't, the noise it makes is by no means irratiting.

And I agree with theMAN that old doesn't mean good. The Nissan QR25DE adopted in cars which orginally had either a SR20DE and KA24DE was not for performance or nosie reduction or whatever reasons, it was for reducing costs while sacrificing durability and reliability. The FS-DE excels in these regards. The FS-DE can be fitted with a turbocharger running 10psi boost on stock internals and run reliably. Can you do that with 1ZZ-FE? No, because quite simply the engine would not hold up.

So not everyone modifies their car, but that's not the point. The point is the testament to the durability and how well the engine is built.

The current E46 3 series BMW 3.0L unit is an old ass unit too, with some new technoligies applied to it, like how the FS-DE has received updates. Does the BMW 330i/Ci have a crap engine? Not according to ALL automotive magazines all there.

That is all.

I actually purchased a 2003 Corolla S. I had it for 3 months before someone decided to steal it right out of my driveway and take it on a join ride and total it. I'm not mad though, insurance and gap insurance took care of everything for me. I am actually happy cause I ended up getting a better car out of the deal. The Corolla handled like shit. I hated going down the highway and getting sucked in by every 18 wheeler that passed me. That was the most annoying thing. The first thing I did when I test drove the protege5 was go down the intersate and make sure I didnt get sucked in while passing 18 wheelers. The protege5, although may not get as great gas milage, is overall the funner car to drive.

Are prizm swayed like a bitch. But it had overdrive which was great. U could barely hear the engine on the highway ..Jon

The 360 Modena doesn't make noise. It screams. And it is the most beautiful scream you will ever hear. My Mazda, on the other hand, makes a lot of noise. But I bought it for handling, disc brakes, etc that I could not get with the competition.

Engine noise doesn't entirely bother me, the Mini is noisier than my Protege under acceleration. But that half ass crap Mazda did to make it ULEV compliant screwed it up (engine rattle, anyone?). BMW would never send an engine out as half ass engineered as Mazda did with this current generation. However, the new 2.3L is a gem as is the 3.0L (although it is still noisier by far than both of the Accord engines).

PS - Before some smart ass responds about the M3 engine, I know. But they also feel that most of those are due to owners abusing the motor, and as a class act doubled the warranty on all M3's.

MAD props to Pro_Fan for dropping the knowledge on the ignition coils. Lets just say many other German car makers are having this exact problems with coils. Can start a car without 'em. Then whata ya got. A shiny lawn ornament. way to be in the know on the industry Pro_FAn! Just buy Japenese. No stupid b.s. to worry about. Turn the key and go!

ZOOM_ZOOM :D

Why are all the magazines out there sleeping on the protege what up with that

Well, an Accord DX with the new four-cylinder is not $30k. And their pushing 160hp smooth as silk. And the V6 Coupes are sweet, even get a 6-speed. The Civic EX engine is nice too. If the handling had not sucked so bad I would have bought a Civic. But now, frankly, BMW's little Mini is stomping everything in this class (unless you just have some need for people in the back seat to be comfortable (screw em)).

Even with the new 6 Mazda is lagging. The Accord V6 gets better fuel economy and 20 extra horsepower to boot. I think Mazda needs to get their shit together and start working on their engines more. Otherwise it just looks like they are playing catch up with the competitors because they had no choice.

I like Zoom Zoom. But its cheaper to put a suspension upgrade on a bad handling car than it is to replace a thrown together engine with absurdly crappy emissions design.

Read above. The price on a bimmer has dropped to the comfortable level of $16,750 (or about the same as the sticker on this crappy Mazda motor).

Seems like u guys are bashing ur own motors ??

What press are you guys talking about anyway? What the hell is Consumer Alert(or what ever the hell that site was) anyway. When I was researching the P5 before I bought it all I read was great reviews in magazines like Consumer Reports (I guess you've never heard of that zine :p ) and Car and Driver where the P5 beat out all the other compact sport wagons (Matrix, Ario(sp?) etc.). And lets not discount the shootout in December's(I think) issue of Sport Compact Car where the MSP beat the Golf Gti, Spec-V, and Civic-si (they didn't even bother to put the Corolla S in there.) Sure the P5 is only rated at 130hp but it's alwys been enough to get me to 60 before the end of the on-ramp and I have no problem passing some one at 70. And I'm sure it will last 100,000 miles or more so quit your belly achin' or get a new car already.

quote: "I like Zoom Zoom. But its cheaper to put a suspension upgrade on a bad handling car than it is to replace a thrown together engine with absurdly crappy emissions design."

Wow, this must be the finest piece of nonsense I've heard in years!

Why do Proteges bag so many top finishs in races then? Because a car starts and ends with the chassis. You can put whatever suspension upgrade on a Cavalier for instance, with it's non independent (read: Torsion Beam) suspension and it will still handle worse than a Pro.

Handling is not only the lack of body roll, or cornering flat, it's how the car drives. And a Protege DOES drive well.

What are BMWs praised most for..Yup...the chassis.

People were complaining the MP3 was underpowered, but Mazda slapped on a turbocharger and all problems associated with the FS-DE were suddenly gone. I can do the same by purchasing the BEGI turbo kit for 4K. That's easy.

Now try to make a Cavalier handling like a Protege. How do you do that? Firming up the springs and dampers will do jack shit. It's the chassis and always the chassis.

So which is cheaper now? To put a suspension upgarde of a bad handling car? Or to to replace a thrown together engine with crappy emissions design?

And you claim the Accord is so much better than the Mazda6? Did you know that the Mazda6 has earned around 100 awards for the car by automotive magazines?

I guess the 20hp and better fuel economy didn't win those automotive authorities.:rolleyes:

Not to mention that it's the best looking car in it's class!

Those are a lot of good points that you've made...and here's one more: The Protege is the best looking car in it's class. No other sub $18,000 car can touch it's styling.
Styling is what attracted me, handling is what sold me and refinement is what keeps me smiling.

I think my P5 has a sweet sounding engine. The problem I have with it is a lack of power. But the handling makes up for that in a lot of ways. Next to my son's Neon R/T, the P5 is the best handling front driver I have owned. And the Neon is about 300 lbs. lighter, so it should have an advantage.

Now to talk about rough sounding engines is to talk about the Neon. It's an all aluminum DOHC that's not exactly a technical wonder. Plus, the quality is not all that good. It has 62,000 miles and already has oil in one of the cylinders when I changed the spark plugs.

If the aftermarket would come up with more go fast products, I think the Protege would become much more popular. My P5 needs about 40 more horsepower to complete my fun factor requirements.

Quit yer bitchin'! Go get a BP powered Mazda and you'll never regret it! :p:nod:

Too bad Mazda didn't give the FS-DE slightly more static compression. While that would only give a marginal hp increase it would also increase gas mileage at the same time (9.5:1 would be easy to maintain on 87 octane, I'm sure).

Putting that MZR engine in the protege would probably drive the price up nearly as much as the mazdaspeed protege.

Word. It's like the so-called amateur "audiophile" bozos who go into a hi-fi store and ask about watts and hertz instead just listening and finding a sound system they like.

No, I must disagree
 

My Pro has too much torque in the snow...even with snow tires. How dare Mazda make such a torquey engine, especially combined with the short gearing...you would think they want me to do nothing but spin my tires in the snow. I wish I had a high revving, useful only for the track, or at 9,000 rpms, but great in the snow because I can't break the front tires loose with my anemic 4 ft/lb of torque at 1,000 rpm engine.

C'mon people, horsepower sells cars, but that is all. Give me an engine with a linear power band, that has useful torque, and I'll be happy. You can only drive so fast on the public roads anyway.

Yes, I would like more power from time to time, but this car holds it's own with anything else in it's price range with a minimum of 4 doors. Is it the fastest? No, but it is a driveable car, with good handling, brakes, comfy interior, etc.

By the way, I like the noise the engine makes too:eek: I know, I must be crazy to enjoy engine noise.

Friggin snow;) :evilgrin: