Mazdaspeed vs. Wrx
 

ok guys... help me out.... ive been throwing around deciding to buy a MSP or a WRX... i really want a car for autocross... im currently autocrossing my P5 right now. and will be passing it on to my little brother when go to the army....

what i really want to know is ... hows the aftermarket for the MPS? ive seen so much for the wrx right now..... and also.. will the parts i put on my P5 compatable with the MPS? like springs, rear sway bar, etc.

i just got finished talking to some buddies of mine about the two cars... and they say go with the MPS... (maybe its because we all own proteges...) but they say it would handel better than a wrx cause the wrx has so so much power. what do you think?

Go with the WRX. If you are going to use it to motorcross, there is a much more larger market for the subaru then the mazdaspeed.

Personally, I like the Mazdaspeed much better than the WRX... my dad has a WRX, and, being in the Protege club...I've come across a few MSPs. :) Of course, yes, the WRX following is much bigger than the MSP following... but I think you've got plenty of parts, where it counts, and your suspension is nearly perfect to begin with. Yes, parts from the Protege 5 will interchange.

MSP Advantages:
-only $20k
-turbo makes all the difference
-chassis and suspension make it one of the best performers in the twisties than any other car around
MSP Disadvantages:
-not enough power
-MSP tranny sux and would proly fail after ~225hp
-The 3rd gen protege (sedan or P5) as we know it is being discontinued. But this may mean that you can pick up an older MSP dirt cheap. Unfortunately it also means the aftermarket will probably die soon.

WRX Advantages:
-227hp turbo
-boxer engine is soooo smooth and bearly vibrates at all
-AWD is a very nice toy to have
-Aftermarket is HUGE for the rex.
-You could upgrade to the STI!
-prolly won't find a funner $25k car anywhere
WRX disadvantages:
-some clutch/tranny problems
-stock re040 tires are garbage and don't generally last a year
-it's a 3000+ pound sedan
-its a $25k car.

go with a wrx. comparing msp vs a wrx is like comparing a
focus vs camaro-ss. i put in about 10k of mods on my wrx
and there is no way a msp would ever come near it. mps's
are like a joke in the forced induction world.

That is a really shitty comparison you just made. Consider that WRX's run 14lbs stock, and an MSP runs half of that. With 45 bucks invested in an MSP, I beat stock WRX's all day long. So, a 20K car, with 45 bucks invested beats a pricer AWD car with higher boost. How does buying a WRX over an MSP make any damn sense? With stock boost, hard piping, and a FMIC an MSP will still beat a WRX. I'm taking it you have never driven an MSP? Oh, and another thing an MSP will out handle a WRX in a slalom...Later,

I'm going to have to agree with 03SpeedLSD on this one. The handling of the MSP is truly top notch. As for the aftermarket, support, and following the MSP is going to grow very fast. Don't forget that both a batch of 2003.5 and 2003.7 are on the way very soon. All the sudden you are going to see a major influx of aftermarket support.

No one has even mentioned the STOCK stereo in the msp!

What's the 2003.7? Oh yeah I have that stereo in my car now! (thanks steph!):p

2003.5 is the Titanium and Yellow

2003.7 is the Blue and Sunlight Silver

You can't the WRX into an WRX STi easily. It involves taking off the body panels and welding additional metal to strengthen the chassis.

The difference between the WRX and WRX STi is much greater than that of the Protege ES and MSP.

The STi´s engine is a 2.5l, the WRX has a 2.0l .

i'm not saying convert the wrx to an sti. i'm saying its another trim line you can upgrade too in the wallet department. That said, to at least get the performance of the STI won't take much money. Just up the boost change out the suspension and a few other upgrades and you are there. But the STI also has a very nice platform and the EJ25 is boosted ~14-15psi so it has potential to unleash too.

I was having the same problem as you, AcoupDetat. Only my version was SRT-4, P5 (for the looks), MSP, or WRX. I ended up with the WRX. The WRX over MSP was easy for me.

The WRX is quite a bit quicker than the MSP. I find it hard to believe that a MSP with $45 invested (boost controller I'm guessing) can outrun a WRX. With stock WRXs running 14.0-14.2 and MSPs running between 14.9 and 15.1 that's a huge deficit of power to make up with $45. (why compare modded vs. stock anyway?)

The MSP outhandles the WRX no prob. The MSP is a wonderful handling machine. If you get a WRX you WILL be buying new tires if you go auto-Xing. The stock tires are Bridgestone RE-92s, they suck.

The WRX aftermarket is huge compared to the MSP aftermarket. I don't think you're going to see a big aftermarket for MSPs. The SRT-4 aftermarket has already eclipsed the MSPs and they've only been out 4 months or so. That being said, aftermarket parts for the WRX are way expensive.

The WRX supposedly has a weak clutch, the MSP supposedly has a weak tranny. Avoid clutch drops with the WRX and you're OK. I would assume the same for the MSP.

If you're just worried about autoX why not buy a 1st gen ACR for $2k and keep the P5?

PS - You can pick up a new WRX for invoice. Should come to between $22-$23k.

He is currently going to autocross with the vehicle, unfortunately a stereo system does not help with the handling.

Also which 2004 WRX are you looking at:

The regular WRX at: 227HP (25K)

or

The WRX STi at: 300HP (30K)

your right.. the sound systme kinda makes it harder to autox... also they make me take it out when i go. so.... thats a pain in the ass to take apart and put back in when im rdy to go....

the stock stereo in the WRX sucks, just so you know. :eek:
It's probably the worst sounding factory unit I've heard.

The WRX are the new Hondas everyone has them in gosh darn BLUE. If I could take my protege5 and use the boxer engine with AWD I have a fast kick ass car. Instead of a fast ugly duckling of a car. Thats just me. The new head lights for 2004 least make it look a littl better.

wouldnt all wheel drive be a no brainer , huge advantage for autocross?

I stay away from AWD in a car because of additional maintenace costs and headaches down the road, but im assuming it would help pulling out of the corners in auto cross, although the extra weight has to be a negative factor..

The modern subaru AWD systems seem to be pretty reliable, really...

I'm not talking about track times. Straight line times mean nothing unless your just a drag racer. Which I am not, so I go for all around racing. I have ran 3 diff WRXs with 3 diff drivers, and have beat all 3 (from a stop or a roll.) Yes, it is pretty nice to buy a 14psi car straight off the show room. I haven't looked at the aftermarket for the SRT-4 lately, but I'm pretty sure it's market and the MSP market are pretty close. Also consider intercooler size and efficiency on all these cars. The MSP being the shitty one of all 3. Intercooler is smaller than a bag of bread, and I'm not going to even go into the details about the backward ass plastic pipes it comes with from the factory. There is room for improvement in all aspects of all 3 of these cars. All 3 have very Great potential. Just depends on how deep your pockets are and what personal interests you take in a car. I personally chose my MSP for the color,handling,stereo, and rarity of production...Later,

So, you have not beat them in a drag race, how have you beat them?

Even if it is reliable, Im sure theres added maintenace costs with transfer case fluid changes, additional CV joints, half shafts, etc...which is all good, but do you really need it to drive down the street? If you live in a snowy area, sure, (i have a truck for that) or if your into drag racing (great traction off the line) , but then again, I would go for a v8 if i was looking for a drag car, and a truck for snow or off road, so I dont care for the subys AWD setup, but thats just my opinion

Aye, good points...I'd have to see how the costs of my dad's subaru and my brother's add up... I don't think either of them have made it to the major service points yet... they haven't needed any out of the ordinary maintenance, though, as far as I know. I really wish I had known about the Mazdaspeed before my dad got his WRX... :( He would still want the Subaru because he takes it skiing, but ... :(

Well, I wouldnt buy a MSP, the car just does nothing for me. If I was looking for performance, go for the Suburu over the Mazda.

why does it matter what your dad drives? Does he base the car he buys on your advice?

I'm sorry that the MSP does nothing for you. For me, it would be a blast, enough fun for me. He does listen to me on some things, or at least gets ideas. :) And it matters, 'cause when I come home to visit I get to drive what car he has. :D

So drive the WRX. Its faster and has AWD. Am I mising something? You think the MSP is better so you wish your dad would have bought that instead?

The stock stereo shouldn´t be an important factor when buying a car (under 50k), they usually suck and can be easily upgraded. The MSP system isn´t all that, I´d rather have them take 600$ off the sticker price and sell it to me without it because I would upgrade it anyway.

Obviously, you've never done an AWD drift. :D

Yes, I've driven both, and I like the MSP a lot better... and being the "fastest" isn't everything...he likes the AWD though because the CHP will let you go through chain zones (snowy roads) without chains...which I admit is a good reason to get one.

a wrx will offer far more potential when you mod it.
far more appreciation for a performance car.

if you dont want to mod your car or cant afford to,
go with a msp. there's no shame in a msp, you will be
much happier cause it's a fairly completed package out
of the box...you could be racing vs minicoopers and
other midget cars and actually win unlike a pro5! :D

but if you ever come across a well modded wrx with a
good driver, dont even bother racing it. ive come
across a msp with some kid in it asking for a race
and i just gave him what he wanted to see...my
tail lights getting smaller and smaller through the
tight s- entrance ramp and lost him after getting on the
expressway.

edit: thats with a 15.1 psi with plenty of room for more boost
but no need.

No mention of the Lancer Revolution? Great article in Car & Driver with a comparison of the Mitsu and the Sub.

We answered his question. His only real question was which has more aftermarket support. Most of us replied: WRX.

We can't tell him which one is better. That's for him to decide after he takes both for a test drive.


I think it has more to do with the tires than the soft suspension and ride height. The tires are crappy all-season Bridgestone RE-92s. The 14" Goodyear Eagle GAs that came on my old neon were better. :D

You already answered that perfectly earlier in the thread. :D

People were just giving their opinions on other aspects of the cars. Like I said earlier, If I just wanted a car for autocross I would buy a 95-99 Neon ACR for $1500-$5000 and keep the P5 for daily driving.

shutup everyone
 

hello?
we're on a mazda forum.... you wanna knock the protege then go to another board... seriously i come here to read about mods and people like me who enjoy their mazda protege5 or mazdaspeed

and anyway i can tell you why i bought an Sp20...

because it is unique.... if i turbo'd it (spool, fm, hiboost) i would be unique...

every f%&in wog and his dog drives a wrx or a lancer over here because "its so modifiable" im sick of hearing people walk up to a perfect specimen on a modified car at an autosalon and hear "bro my cousins rex would kick that bbbbrrrooo thats lame"

i want to make a mod that makes my car nicer to drive, gets me appreciation for the effort (how much effort does it take to pump up the boost on a wrx? nothing computer mods and its runs more standard..... WOW!!!)

thats not car mofication that being a sheep and being "cool"

yes the wrx is a cool car, but so is the mazdaspeed, and i will not hear people knocking shit on it... im biased... why? because i drive a mazda, as with most of the people here.

let it rest!!

Actually this is one of the best places to ask that question. Just look at the amount of knowledge in the replies, eh?

Re: shutup everyone
 

Dude, calm down. No one knocked the Pro.

I couldn't agree more. If someone puts time and effort into their car to make it fast then they deserve props.

My area is hardly saturated with sport compacts (other than Hondas). There are no MSPs, P5s, SRT-4s, WRXs (except mine) in my area. The only WRX I've seen was about 30 miles west of me.

Again. No one bashed the MSP. I still don't see where you think that. Are we even reading the same thread. :p

The thread starter asked for opinions. That's what he got.

That's true but it's cheap. I can't imagine buying a new car solely for autocross when he has a nice car now.

I don't know what mods you can do in each of the SCCA classifications but have you seen the aftermarket support for the 1st gen neons? I'm sure you could have a competitive racer for under $5k.

dude you live in austrailia. Since there are only a few AWD cars made and the WRX is the IMO the most bang for the cheap price, it's no surprise they are so popular. Don't you guys have more trails and dirt roads than paved ones???? They really aren't that abundant driving around in the US. That may be why we like them so much. Anyhow....go take a cold shower dude. I love the MSP but i also love it enough to objectively critsize it. Cuz hey, if i was buying a car i want to know everything about it. Not just that it's a turbo protege, but what are both the good and bad aspects of the car.

I have a question, I don't know that much about the MSP but so far from what I've read the turbo system for the MSP isn't a good one. Would it be better to upgrade the turbo system and get rid of the one that came with the stock car? Or what about adding an addidtional turbo system onto it.?

you could replace the turbo with a bigger one or change the turbine or housing but adding a 2nd charger isnt worth the effort. there is just no room under there to mount or plumb a second turbo with out removing some things (like A/C system). Not to mention the heat that a 2nd turbo would create you may have to change out all the hoses so they don't fatique.