Long term alignment problem Please enlighten me.
March-1st-2003, 11:59 PM
#1
WiCky=))
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
Long term alignment problem Please enlighten me.
I don't know where to post this, so I justed posted it here.
Well, my P5 since last year has an alignment problem. It costantly pulls to the right, even on non-crowned roads, without wind etcetc. I did about 5 alignments since last year and although for the first few days of an alignment everything seemed OK, after 3 days the problem shows up again.
The car was first misaligned when I slipped and understeered in heavy snow on a corner. I banged into the curb sideways when the car was moving forward alongside the curb. The steering was messed but its fixed now. But thr alignmnt is still broken.
I suspect that the front right wheel was "pulled back" while the unaffected left wheel remains in the same position, hence causing the car to pull to the right. I think its the front right axle being dislocated a small amount so the front right wheel is in its present location.
I'm really tired of the constant alignments. And the techs at a Mazda dealer said there was nothing dislocated or broken, but then the problem couldn't be coming back after 3 days everytime.
Can anyone please enlighten me on this? I would really appreciate it.
Well, my P5 since last year has an alignment problem. It costantly pulls to the right, even on non-crowned roads, without wind etcetc. I did about 5 alignments since last year and although for the first few days of an alignment everything seemed OK, after 3 days the problem shows up again.
The car was first misaligned when I slipped and understeered in heavy snow on a corner. I banged into the curb sideways when the car was moving forward alongside the curb. The steering was messed but its fixed now. But thr alignmnt is still broken.
I suspect that the front right wheel was "pulled back" while the unaffected left wheel remains in the same position, hence causing the car to pull to the right. I think its the front right axle being dislocated a small amount so the front right wheel is in its present location.
I'm really tired of the constant alignments. And the techs at a Mazda dealer said there was nothing dislocated or broken, but then the problem couldn't be coming back after 3 days everytime.
Can anyone please enlighten me on this? I would really appreciate it.
March-2nd-2003, 12:22 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 1,667
Re: Long term alignment problem Please enlighten me.
Originally posted by leungwingkei
I don't know where to post this, so I justed posted it here.
Well, my P5 since last year has an alignment problem. It costantly pulls to the right, even on non-crowned roads, without wind etcetc. I did about 5 alignments since last year and although for the first few days of an alignment everything seemed OK, after 3 days the problem shows up again.
The car was first misaligned when I slipped and understeered in heavy snow on a corner. I banged into the curb sideways when the car was moving forward alongside the curb. The steering was messed but its fixed now. But thr alignmnt is still broken.
I suspect that the front right wheel was "pulled back" while the unaffected left wheel remains in the same position, hence causing the car to pull to the right. I think its the front right axle being dislocated a small amount so the front right wheel is in its present location.
I'm really tired of the constant alignments. And the techs at a Mazda dealer said there was nothing dislocated or broken, but then the problem couldn't be coming back after 3 days everytime.
Can anyone please enlighten me on this? I would really appreciate it.
I don't know where to post this, so I justed posted it here.
Well, my P5 since last year has an alignment problem. It costantly pulls to the right, even on non-crowned roads, without wind etcetc. I did about 5 alignments since last year and although for the first few days of an alignment everything seemed OK, after 3 days the problem shows up again.
The car was first misaligned when I slipped and understeered in heavy snow on a corner. I banged into the curb sideways when the car was moving forward alongside the curb. The steering was messed but its fixed now. But thr alignmnt is still broken.
I suspect that the front right wheel was "pulled back" while the unaffected left wheel remains in the same position, hence causing the car to pull to the right. I think its the front right axle being dislocated a small amount so the front right wheel is in its present location.
I'm really tired of the constant alignments. And the techs at a Mazda dealer said there was nothing dislocated or broken, but then the problem couldn't be coming back after 3 days everytime.
Can anyone please enlighten me on this? I would really appreciate it.
March-2nd-2003, 12:57 AM
#3
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 23
You may have bent a strut tower. Most alignment tech will not be able to tell this. You need to measure the tire position with relation to points on the car. I don't know where they are on a Mazda but I had this problem on another car I had. I finally found a frame shop and they had to re-bend the front strut tower to make the tires all sit right. The driver side was pushed back about an inch and caused the car to constantly pull to the left. I went through five alignments before I gave up and started looking for a frame problem.
March-2nd-2003, 01:01 AM
#4
WiCky=))
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
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Thanks alot guys from the input. Btw Bob0a, what is a frame shop?
And how did you find out that the strut tower was your problem?
The MAN, the car was unloaded, and I weigh about 160 pounds, that was 1 year ago I last checked.
And how did you find out that the strut tower was your problem?
The MAN, the car was unloaded, and I weigh about 160 pounds, that was 1 year ago I last checked.
March-2nd-2003, 01:20 AM
#5
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 23
A frame shop is where a car goes that has been wreaked. They have a piece of equipment that can twist the frame of a car to factory specs. Not a pleasant topic, however cars do require a twist sometimes when hit hard enough.
In my case it wasn't hard, just at the right angle. I slid into a curb and the tire took the full force of the impact I hit it hard enough to break a belt in the tire. This is the first thing I changed. Once a belt is broken in the tire casting it will do strange things to handling. This could be your problem (I hope so). Normally if a belt breaks you can see the ware pattern in the rubber. Usually, but not all the time it will bounce at a certain speed and not at others (like 40 to 43 MPH it bounces or vibrates and not at 38 or 45).
If you haven’t already tried this, rotate the tires and see if the problems change. Usually a tire that is pulling on the front will not pull on the back. That is not 100% but it will most likely change the driving pattern. If it does change, think about a new tire. The last thing you want is a tire that is defective on your car.
In my case it wasn't hard, just at the right angle. I slid into a curb and the tire took the full force of the impact I hit it hard enough to break a belt in the tire. This is the first thing I changed. Once a belt is broken in the tire casting it will do strange things to handling. This could be your problem (I hope so). Normally if a belt breaks you can see the ware pattern in the rubber. Usually, but not all the time it will bounce at a certain speed and not at others (like 40 to 43 MPH it bounces or vibrates and not at 38 or 45).
If you haven’t already tried this, rotate the tires and see if the problems change. Usually a tire that is pulling on the front will not pull on the back. That is not 100% but it will most likely change the driving pattern. If it does change, think about a new tire. The last thing you want is a tire that is defective on your car.
March-2nd-2003, 01:33 AM
#6
Clean-Up Crew
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pleasure Point, Ca.
Posts: 2,360
I knew that I'd seen this before...Beware, this guy is notoriously long-winded!
link:http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...5/message/2428
link:http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...5/message/2428
March-2nd-2003, 05:21 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
Could you post your alignment specs from the last alignment? Vehicles with low-profile tires (like a stock P5) tend to be sensitive to small alignment errors. Unfortunately, this means that it's possible for the car to be "in spec" yet still pull to one side. 
Your dealer's alignment tech may not be very good, and may be quitting when he gets everything within spec rather than doing it RIGHT. 
BTW I also agree with the folks who are saying to have it checked by a frame shop. There are ways to bend your suspension without it being obvious to the naked eye.
Your dealer's alignment tech may not be very good, and may be quitting when he gets everything within spec rather than doing it RIGHT. BTW I also agree with the folks who are saying to have it checked by a frame shop. There are ways to bend your suspension without it being obvious to the naked eye.
March-2nd-2003, 05:28 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
OK, one other silly question...
Has anyone checked the car for a dragging right front brake? It's possible that there's a problem with the caliper, or a chunk of road debris has smacked the right front brake line and dented it, which will make it hold pressure and never release fully.
Just a thought.
Has anyone checked the car for a dragging right front brake? It's possible that there's a problem with the caliper, or a chunk of road debris has smacked the right front brake line and dented it, which will make it hold pressure and never release fully.
Just a thought.
March-2nd-2003, 07:46 PM
#10
WiCky=))
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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It could be because your rotors are warped too. That causes the same symtom when braking.
When they showed me a print out everything was within spec only to discover the specs were all out one weke later.
When they showed me a print out everything was within spec only to discover the specs were all out one weke later.
March-3rd-2003, 12:13 AM
#11
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 51
Slid on sand
I went to do a U turn one year were I was not supposed to (towards the end of the winter) and there was a lot of sand and **** between the 2 sides of the street. I basically slid, hit the curb in the middle of road with the front pasenger wheel, jumped over it and went over the curb across street onto the snow bank.
Yeah, I fucked **** up pretty good let me tell you. I bend the wheel back so far back, it was almost touching the rear part of the wheel well, busted the elbow down pipe, O2 sensor, and ripped a hole into the oil pan...not to mention I fucked up the mag a little too.
Anyways, I got all the broken parts fixed (kept the tire and the wheel as is, just rebalanced it). They did an alignment check on the frame and it was OK. I didn't even get a wheel alignment done (unless the garage did it and included it in the price). Anyways, it cost me about $1500CDN bucks to get it all fixed. O2 sensor was 450. 2000 Protege was still pretty new so generic parts were not available.
Anyhow, after replacing the right control arm asembly, the car was fine. I kept the fucked up mag in the back. Car tracks pefectly straight and drives excactly like it did before. Since then, i replaced my summer tires with new ones and had the Mag repressed and repained. It is basically brand new now except the machinged lip on the 2000 mags is a little smaller than before. Nothing you won't notice unless pointed out.
I would sugest to keep the fucked up rim on one of the rear wheels. If you didn't have the control arm replaced, that might also be a good place to start. I hit the curb very hard and straight on. The repairs where not done at the dealer as well. I went to a very repeceted shop close to where I lived. They are more pricey than most shop but probably cheaper than the dealer but they do excellent work.
Yeah, I fucked **** up pretty good let me tell you. I bend the wheel back so far back, it was almost touching the rear part of the wheel well, busted the elbow down pipe, O2 sensor, and ripped a hole into the oil pan...not to mention I fucked up the mag a little too.
Anyways, I got all the broken parts fixed (kept the tire and the wheel as is, just rebalanced it). They did an alignment check on the frame and it was OK. I didn't even get a wheel alignment done (unless the garage did it and included it in the price). Anyways, it cost me about $1500CDN bucks to get it all fixed. O2 sensor was 450. 2000 Protege was still pretty new so generic parts were not available.
Anyhow, after replacing the right control arm asembly, the car was fine. I kept the fucked up mag in the back. Car tracks pefectly straight and drives excactly like it did before. Since then, i replaced my summer tires with new ones and had the Mag repressed and repained. It is basically brand new now except the machinged lip on the 2000 mags is a little smaller than before. Nothing you won't notice unless pointed out.
I would sugest to keep the fucked up rim on one of the rear wheels. If you didn't have the control arm replaced, that might also be a good place to start. I hit the curb very hard and straight on. The repairs where not done at the dealer as well. I went to a very repeceted shop close to where I lived. They are more pricey than most shop but probably cheaper than the dealer but they do excellent work.
March-3rd-2003, 12:10 PM
#12
WiCky=))
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Location: Canada
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browntrout, where in Canada are you located? Can you give me contacts the the store.
I popped the hood open today and found that the strut tower area, I don't know what it's called, anyways, it's where the tower bar is mounted, and found that the paasenger side one is canted inwardss and dislocated relative to the left. Is this a problem and do are other P5s supposed to be like this also??
I popped the hood open today and found that the strut tower area, I don't know what it's called, anyways, it's where the tower bar is mounted, and found that the paasenger side one is canted inwardss and dislocated relative to the left. Is this a problem and do are other P5s supposed to be like this also??
March-3rd-2003, 03:43 PM
#13
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Merritt Island Fl
Posts: 151
It would be hard to see a small difference in the position of the strut tower. And a big one wouldn't get through even a 1/2 assed alignment shop, plus the brace would probably be bent. The alignment can for the most part work around a small deviation here without ill handling effects.
Since the alignment can be set to spec, and latter be meassured out, I'd look for loose or damaged parts. The control arm and tie rods are two parts I'd look closely at. Including their mounting points and pillow bushings. A damaged bushing or ball joint would allow toe and camber to shift all over the place. If it was real cold when this happened you could look at the rubber strut perch too, it may have cracked.
The only real solution is to disassemble everything and check each part for play. Sometimes you can get lucky and tap the parts with a hammer, the ones that make the dull thud will be the problem. A solid ringing sound on all parts won't mean everythings OK though.
My P5 seems to develope toe in over time. I'll set it, and in about 2500 miles it will be toed in again. I suspect sub frame flex, that allows relative control arm movement. It appears to be even left to right, you may have the same condition just aggravated on the right.
Does your steering wheel stay centered?
What is the specific tire wear?
What spec changes, caster, camber or toe?
Was the alignment a 4 wheel reference?
Since the alignment can be set to spec, and latter be meassured out, I'd look for loose or damaged parts. The control arm and tie rods are two parts I'd look closely at. Including their mounting points and pillow bushings. A damaged bushing or ball joint would allow toe and camber to shift all over the place. If it was real cold when this happened you could look at the rubber strut perch too, it may have cracked.
The only real solution is to disassemble everything and check each part for play. Sometimes you can get lucky and tap the parts with a hammer, the ones that make the dull thud will be the problem. A solid ringing sound on all parts won't mean everythings OK though.
My P5 seems to develope toe in over time. I'll set it, and in about 2500 miles it will be toed in again. I suspect sub frame flex, that allows relative control arm movement. It appears to be even left to right, you may have the same condition just aggravated on the right.
Does your steering wheel stay centered?
What is the specific tire wear?
What spec changes, caster, camber or toe?
Was the alignment a 4 wheel reference?
March-3rd-2003, 09:06 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: central coast calif.
Posts: 260
i would think that a bent strut tower would show up when the tech checked the camber and camber. a bent strut tower would have a direct effect on those.
are you taking your car back to the same shop each time? a different shop each time? are you telling them your problem?
my guess would be an internally damaged tire.
are you taking your car back to the same shop each time? a different shop each time? are you telling them your problem?
my guess would be an internally damaged tire.