J-Protege's Suspension Build Thread
 

Yes, this is taking a major cue from Josh, but I do want to make sure I'm doing this right, and if I should change anything.

Most importantly, I need to know if I'm forgetting anything. Extra little parts that I may need, like bump stops or what not. I don't want to get halfway into this to put it all back together wrong.

This is my first suspension build, so bear with me please!

So far:

I have the front and rear MSP/RacingBeat sway bars.
Pairing them up with either AWR endlinks, or Mazdaspeed ones (almost the same price at the dealer anyways).

I already have a set of MSP springs, these are right from the car, not the mildly different RacingBeat ones, but the actual Mazdaspeed ones.

Now I know I'll need a set of MSP struts to go with these, to counter the uneven height that the MSP springs cause.

Now, that's all I have planned so far, so any help would be more than welcome. I have some parts sitting around that eagerly want to be installed.

I would go ahead and add the MSP strut bar also

You will need different bushings for where the sway bars mount under the car. The stock ones will work if you force them, but they are designed for a smaller bar.

Are you planning on getting a full MSP strut assembly? If not, you might want to replace the rubber bits at the top of the strut where it mounts to your car. Kansei ordered a bunch of that stuff once I believe.

Go with the MSP endlinks for the rear bar. Up front the sedan and MSP share the same endlinks. The AWR endlinks rust badly in northern climates.

You might also consider the AXR clunk fix kit, in which case you won't have to worry about bushings for the rear bar--they're included in the kit.

The MSP bump stops may be included in the MSP strut kit, as shown here.

I wonder if it's really necessary to replace those rubber spring "insulators" and "seats." I'm not planning to...maybe Kansei will share his experience here.

Ah, cool to see that strut assembly comes with the proper stops. Seems pretty pricey for a set of struts... is that normal, around $500?
I've seen generic cheapy struts for under $50 a piece, but I guess it makes sence for OEM.

Should I worry about shocks at all? Do I even need to, or are springs/struts fine. I kind of want to renew the whole setup, dont really want to be back down there soon to replace more parts. Just making sure to only do whats nessesary.

Anyone have a link for that clunk fix kit? I can't seem to find it. Their site just says 'product not found' when I click the link to buy the kit.

Yep, the MSP struts are very expensive. You might do better with a different set of springs and Tokico HPs--for example, the Tokico HP handling kit (struts AND springs) can be had for $440 on eBay. MSP bumpstops cost about $7 each.

Struts are analogous to shocks, the difference being that struts form an integral part of the suspension's structure in addition to providing damping. Some cars have shocks, some have struts.

Here's a link to the AXR group buy on the other forum.

So, if I already have the MSP springs, it would cost about the same to either get just the Tokico springs+struts, or the MSP struts.

So, what would I be better off with, since they are about the same price at this point (because of already bought parts).

Keep the MSP springs and get some MSP struts, or replace the whole setup with Tokico and cut my losses on the springs?

Keep in mind this is a daily driver, I want the car to be drivable on not-so-perfect roads, along with the performance of better parts. I can't sacrifice all my comfort for best perfomance.

The Tokico setup is pretty aggressive--the springs are about 35% stiffer than stock. njaremka runs that kit, you can probably PM him for his impressions of it. The MSP setup is about 20% stiffer front, 10% rear. Most people report it's a good compromise between ride and handling.

Racing Beat and Tein H-Tech are also fairly mild at about 20% stiffer.

Hmm, sounds like the MSP setup is going to be my choice. Ride drop/comfort/performance are what I'm looking for, as well, I already have the springs, so no worrying about too much shipping etc.

Thanks for the input guys!

Tokico's with factory springs
 

Put HP Blue Topico's on my 02 Protege ES 5spd. Left the factory springs on. Noticeably improved cornering with less forgiving ride on San Diego's freeways and other less than smooth rodes. Does look like I lifted the car, not the look I was going for but am planning to keep factory ride height. Freeways are not the smoothes in San Diego, some rodes have bumps/ potholes and the traffic calming speed bumps don't help either.

Thought about KYB's but wanted to upgrade the suspension while I was replacing the struts.

I would have gone for some racing beat springs to lower it just a bit.. they'd also give the car a better ride feel because you wouldn't have struts that are overvalved for your springs :)

I bet your 4x4 look is kinda just the stock look, and your old struts were that well worn.. how many miles on them?

Car had 88k with factory struts, and struts started to leak oil. What does that mean for ride/handling when the struts are overvalved for the springs?

Springs and struts should be properly matched. Stiffer springs require more damping and vice-versa.

If your struts are overvalved you'll have a bouncy ride, if they are undervalved (very stiff springs on stock struts) they won't control the movement of the spring well.

edit: as josh said, they should be properly matched. Tokico HPs assume a spring that is about 10% stiffer than stock, so they're a bit much for stock springs. They're even a bit much for normal day-to-day driving on some lowering springs (msp springs (the msp tokicos aren't normal, mazda had them revalve them), my old crap goldline springs)

Sounds like springs are the next step
 

From the discussion it sound like Tokico springs will be a good match with the Tokico HP Blue's I have. Will put this down as my next mod (don't currently have the cash).

Have noticed a little more bounce on the freeways. Also have noticed much improved cornering and handling with the exception of the bounce.

Surprisingly both Tokico's web site and tech department (talked to Ray) say the HP blues are ok to go with OE springs. My local suspension shop also said the HP blues will work with OE springs.

From Tokico's web site:

- Q. Will other springs work with TOKICO shocks?
A. TOKICO shocks are designed to work with original springs or a wide range of performance lowering springs. However, TOKICO shocks tend to deliver their best performance and ride quality when used with original or TOKICO springs.

Well yeah.. they do still work on the OEM springs, it isn't really damaging anything.. but the ride quality is a bit worse.

Thanks for the help!
 

Thanks for all the help. First time I've replaced Struts with aftermarket. Learning there's a difference between what will works and what the ideal set up is.

Bleh, I can't find any MSP struts sets for what I want to pay. After paying for shipping, it's actually cheaper to buy Tokico HP struts and springs packaged together, than just MSP struts.

So, anyone want to buy a set of perfect MSP springs? :)

On another note, it seems like Onlinemazdaparts is selling endlinks for like $23 a peice. I think they are just standard protege sedan ones, but I can't tell.

Are these fine, or should I get different ones for the MSP sway bars?

Also, does anyone know where to get an actual MSP/MP3/P5 strut tower brace? I can only find aftermarkets or cheap looking junk. I like the OEM one best, and it fits my red car quite nicely.

Get MSP ones

but mine? wait then I'd need one. I had an aftermarket one, they're all junk because they're hinged on both sides. It allows the chassis to flex as a parallelogram still.

but yeah if you find an MSP bar for sale anywhere (it's the silver one) lemme know, I'll buy it and sell you my p5 one or you can buy it and we just trade.

Was that the GTSPEC bar?

The corksport but they're virtually identical. I think the AutoEXE bare is a good one but of course.. a bit pricey and hard to come by.

So, in a battle to the death, what would win KYB GR-2 struts, or Tokico HPs?

I can get both for a very similar price.

HP smokes a cigarette; lifeless GR-2 a bloody mess.

KYB GR-2s are disgusting

(actually they really aren't, but they're no better than whatever you have right now)

Hahaha, awesome. Good to know, I hate trying to look into these thing online, because most reviews come from vendors who have nothing but great things to say about any product they sell.

well, they are compared to HPs

OK, so after checking about a dozen websites, seem no one has the info.

Does anyone know what the spring stats (stiffness, progressive/linear) are of the springs that ship with Tokico's HP kit. The kit seems to be sold everywhere, but beside the drop amount, I can't find any info on them.

Since they come with the Tokico HPs, I'm assuming they are Tokico springs, but that's all I know about them.

Thanks guys, for any info.

they may be compared but they don't really compare from everything I've read. They are stock replacements at best

Tokico handling kit springs
front: 185 lb/in,
rear: 145-200 lb/in.

Nice, thanks. Do you know if they are all linear/progressive or some kind of combo?

Yeah, when one value is given it's understood to be linear in the operating range of motion*. If a range of numbers is given it's progressive; the first number is the rate at the start of compression, the second number is the rate when the coils are almost touching*. Hence the Tokico springs are linear up front, progressive rear.

*Unless the manufacturer has some cockeyed way of doing things.

Ah gotcha. That makes much more sence. I has always thought it was a range of some sort, just didn't know what it was reffering to.

Man, planning this suspension just proves how little I knew about suspension to being with.

Just wanted to say the Tokico rates I gave may be wrong. I am beginning to question my source of that info. FYI.

Yeh, looking at the images, they look to be all linear... but like I said, I can't find info on them anywhere.

So, as I look into this a bit more, seems like the MSP springs are actually pretty good springs to use. However, I am pretty much set on HP struts, so the 'uneven' effect is something I want to avoid (of course).

So, should I find some kind of combo that works here (different fronts), or just go with a whole new set of springs with the HPs?

Pricing I'm looking at:
$515 for the Tokico set (springs+struts)
$380 for just the HP struts

Therefore, if I buy just the struts, and front spring separate, the springs have to cost under $135 shipped to make it cost effective.

Any ideas/suggestions here?

Tokico won't divulge their strut damping rates--I wouldn't think they'd give up their "secret recipe" spring rates either. I'd certainly want to know what I'm getting into with a set of springs--guess they'd rather give up sales than release their proprietary information. :drool:

Try eBay for Tokico struts and the strut/spring kit. I got my struts for $320 shipped w/out issue. Then you can afford Racing Beat springs and never have to worry about this again. :)

Haha, yeh those prices are from eBay. What I posted are prices shipped to Canada, I doubt I'm gonna find much cheaper than that.

Oh, right. Forgot you're in Canadia. =P International shipping FTL.

Shipping + customs + currency conversion = FTL+1

Ok, need to ask you guys for more info!

When I'm planning to do my rear/front sways, I know I will need new endlinks, thats taken care of. Now, before I start into this, will I need anything else? New bushings, etc, or does the stock stuff work?