2.0L cold engine rattle - update and possible FIX
 

One of our members - "bozi" - may have stumbled upon a a fix for the cold engine rattle so many of us experience.

Seems he brought his car to the dealer for brake work, and they "reprogrammed the PCM" while he was there - explaining that the purpose of the reprogramming is to CURE THE COLD ENGINE RATTLE. Supposedly, the 2003 Proteges do not suffer from the VTCS rattle that the 2002's have, and his PCM has now been reprogrammed to 2003 specs, and the rattle fixed.

Since I don't plan on visiting my dealer anytime soon, can anyone confirm or deny this? Did Mazda actually come through with a fix for our noisy cold motors?

I may call just to find out tomorrow - it might do us all some good if some members check out the facts of this, and report back; Does your dealer have info about fixing the rattle? Did you have the service done? Did it eliminate the noise? Stuff like that.

Looks like we *might* finally have a solution to the annoying cold-startup noises!

~HH

Just to clarify...

I went to my dealer for a different problem (see noise from rear right wheel post), I also told him that when the engine is warm at around 2000rpm, the instrument panel seems to make a vibration sound. Now I don't know what the delear understood, cause he never fixed that. In fact he told me that what he did fix was a problem which was 'common' to proteges and which was a cold start up rattle. He did mention that the 2003's did not have that problem (I don't know how true that is).

The work order (or invoice if you like) says this

- Traced to internal problem in the PCM
- Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle

I took the car out this afternoon, after it had stood in the cold weather (why is it so bloody cold today in Toronto?), and the rattle seems to have vanished. I probably need to pay attention for a couple of weeks and see if this is indeed a fix.

Hope I shed a little bit of light on this issue....

It would seem to (finally) be true. At least one dealer in Toronto has the code, others say are expecting it within 2 weeks (and a few of course still know nothing about anything). You will not see any hoopla about this, as they don't want everyone with a P5 or 2.0L Protege in the shop taking up time/space to get this done. There certainly will be no formal 'recall'....if everyone gets this done it's a huge warranty expense to Mazda . I guess if you have put your name on the notiifcation list at the dealer for this issue, they should call you.

Lucky for us (and maybe unlucky for Mazda and the dealers) we're living in the digital information age - not many secrets out there anymore.

Go get 'em fellas! I'm hoping my local dealers are not as clueless about this as I expect them to be - we'll see.

~HH

I've got a bit of cold start engine rattle, no matter what they say about the 03 not having this problem. It's not as bad as you 02 owners state yours is, but it's there none the less.

I guess the best way to put it in words is, mine sounds more like a truck for the first few minutes of operation. Is this what the 02 CSR (cold start rattle) sounds like??

I'd like to compare mine to an 02... I'll stop by the dealer to compare (they still have a few 02's on the lot.)

Glad to hear Mazda addressing owners concerns. Unlike Subaru. :rolleyes:

Jim

yeah.. something like that...i associate it more to having a diesel vehicle.. but it does sound crappy.

That's the term I was looking for
 

More like a diesel.... cool. I'll check with my dealer to see if they can do something about it. :)

I might try disconnecting the VTCS soleniod first, that may eliminate it....

Thanks,
Jim

I have the 1.6L!! It has a loud rattling when cold only! Is this problem also a fix for the 1.6L 01 pros? :)

MackDaddy:

The cold rattle is more pronounced if you drive the car before it reaches full operating temperature. I don't hear much out of the ordinary if the car is just idling - maybe a little "diesel" sound, but it really comes alive if you drive away like that - as the engine revs up, there is definitely a pronounced rattle or growling from the engine. Don't know if this is what you experience - but almost all cars will sound a little different before warming up completely, even at idle. The 2.0 issue is definitely not your average cold engine noises - and it generally doesn't matter what the outside temp is; it happens even in warm weather, as the engine itself ramps up to 120 degrees or so (there is a specific cutoff temperature for the VTCS system, I just can't remember what it is).

Distance:

Your rattle might not be the same thing. I don't believe the 1.6 has the VTCS system, or at least not the same one. And for reference, my 93 Miata had a cold rattle also (it was the 1.6 motor), but this was generally accepted to be a function of some heat shielding or something. I don't know about yours, but no matter what the temperature or conditions, my 1.6 rattle would go away completely after 1 or 2 accelerations from a stop. The 2.0 rattle does not act that way.

~HH

Exactly
 

It's not at idle, actually idle sounds quite normal. It's the damn rattle when you actually drive the car... sounds like junk! :mad: Not a problem after the car reaches NOT, but before that, it's a problem I don't like.

Seems this problem is not isolated to the 02's, as I've got this exact problem.

Jim

Interesting, MackDaddy.

According to "bozi", his dealer *said* they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle.

I don't really know what to say - bozi said he didn't complain about the rattle, and never really paid attention to it before, so he's not 100% sure anything was even fixed.

Anyone call the dealer and ask about this? Surely, at least ONE of our dealers must have some information about whether or not the 2002 VTCS issue has been resolved and a fix sent to the dealers.

~HH

Sorry, but I've got an 03 that does the same thing as the 02! I'll try disconnecting the VTCS solenoid and see if that helps. Who knows.... :rolleyes:

Jim

Interesting info. Mazda customer service actually called me two weeks ago and let me know an updated program was being sent to my delaer to test on an employee car and that I should be able to get the repair in a week or so if it works. Sorta confirms your information.

VCTS
 

Just wonderin how safe it is and what affect is will have in your car to disconnect the VTCS selonoid? Has anyone tried it?? Did it take away that god awful noise??? Also... how exactly do you disconnect it and where is it located. Thanks all!

UPDATE
 

Wassup! I did say that I did'nt pay much attention to the rattle, but what I meant is that I was just used to it since I had it from the second day I had the car (summer time), but nonetheless I was very aware that I had the rattle.

All I can say is that since Friday, I have not experienced it, the car runs really smooth when I don't let the engine warm up, well at least really smooth compared to how it was.

But people don't take my word for it, go ahead and talk to your dealer about it. (remember that my dealer is in Toronto, I don't know if it makes a difference)

By the way, my dealer did not say that "they updated the PCM to 2003 specs to eliminate the rattle", the guy at the desk who answers phones and knows as much about cars as my 10 year old cousin, told me that the 2003 does not have the same problem. What is in fact written on the invoice is just: "Reprogrammed PCM to correct cold start up rattle ".

Re: VCTS
 

If you disconnect the solenoid connector (the electical connector) you will get rid of the noise, but youll probably get a check engine light that wont go away.

What you need to do is leave the connector as is, and disconnect the vacuum hose that goes to the vacuum actuator that moves the VTCS plates. This will avoid the check engine light. I have been running like this for about 13,000 miles without a problem, other than throttle response which is a bit more jerky, but only when engine is cold. If you do search on "cold engine rattle, you will get more details on this than you ever wanted to know :)

Re: VCTS
 

To address any additional affects...

I asked my dealer service manager about the rattle about a month ago and he said that he went to a training where this was covered, and he said that Mazda had no planned fixes for this, and basically I needed to live with it. I'm not really sure if this guy was trustworthy, as he also told me there were no service bulletins for the clutch chatter I've experienced (contrary to the info on this sites FAQ).

Anyway I asked him what would happen if I would disconnect the vacuum hose to get rid of the noise, he said I would get a check engine light. When I told him I didn't when I was "experimenting" (I've really been driving with the vacuum hose disconnected for about 13,000 mile)) he said it would be bad because it could foul the plugs. Fair enough... duly noted.

Today I had a bit of spare time and I pulled one of the plugs and found it to be a nice light tan color with no deposits on the electrode area. Again, this is after 13,000 miles with the hose disconnected. I'm running on the assumption that the rest of the plugs should be fine. So far, after this "mod" I have not seen any evidence to indicate harm to any system on the car, based on drivability or plug color. Has anyone else noted any issues by disabling the VTCS?

One possible area of concern that I really have no way of testing, is whether on not the primary catalytic is suffering any effects, since it may be working a bit harder to clean the exhaust. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

BTW... anyone trying to find out how to disconnect the vacuum hose should read up on previous detailed posts (search) to get important details.

I called my dealer to see if they have received this fix, no luck. Perhaps they are just testing it out on some customers cars in the Toronto area?

Good deal
 

Disconnected, and plugged the VTCS vacuum hose that leads to the diaphram. Works like a champ! No more cold start rattle noise, no CEL.

I'll report back with fuel economy variance (if any.) Hopefully this won't make that big a deal.

Thanks all,
Jim

All this technical talk... VTCS VTS... blah blah. For the half of us who don't have mechanical expertise (the one's who need this discussion board for advice)...

My car gets this vibrating noise too, it sounds like its coming from underneath the car or from the exhaust area. The noise goes away after the engine warms up after driving for a few minutes, and only happens when it is cold outside (when i mean cold i mean temps below 30F) here in minnesota.

So what is the exact situation with the dealer fix?? The message seemed not very clear from people's posts... did the dealers (here in the US) blow you off and said "you have to live with it" or did they find a way to fix this damn engine rattle problem? Because I'm brining my car to the dealer for service, and I want to be able to tell him exactally what it is so he doens't just tell me "i didn't find anything wrong with the car" and not fix it.

thanks
~peace

The dealers here in Fairfax and in my hometown of Pittsburgh all came up with different reasons for the noise and the end result was that I'd have to live with it!!! Those bastards!!!...LOL!!!:D

God damn it... are you serious? It is fuking annoying as hell... and I live in MN so the winters are way to freakin' long to have to deal with that every morning!!!

I swear to god.... this is my first Jap car that I've owned too, and I'm not too impressed. This sure as hell doesn't happen with the American car's I've driven in the past. And sure the Domestic cars may be of lower quaility, but at least the companies live up to that and fix the problems (i.e. all the Ford, GM recalls that happen every year).

I own a 95 Cobra Mustang as well, and it had alot of problems, but at least Ford addressed, and fixed all of the problems by recalling repairs to all of their cars. Whereas Mazda doesn't seem to give a rip about this very very anoying engine rattle... man I want to break something right now... and I just bought this Pro ES like 2 months ago, it only has 3000 miles!!!!!!!!! GOD DAMN IT!!!

~peace

I know what you mean my car has less than 3,000 miles on it and it sounds like shit! I work for the government, work hand-in-hand with DOJ and have friends in other agencies so I'm actually looking into some sort of legal action. I don’t really WANT to take any legal action and I’m not one of those people who take people to court all the time but this is not right what Mazda is doing. They know about the problem that plagues many of us and because of their own financial concerns they are just going to let us hang out to dry and deal with this problem. It doesn’t matter to me that it doesn’t affect performance or any other factor in the cars performance or reliability, and I don’t care if it goes away after it warms up. No matter how you look at it this noise is caused by a problem or design flaw, I seriously doubt Mazda designed the car to sound that way. I don’t care what they have to do to fix it they should HAVE to fix it no matter what the cost to them!! I really like the car, I really do, and I feel that I got a good deal on it but I would not have bought this car if I had known that it would make this noise. All I really want to do is put some pressure on Mazda to get off their greedy lazy asses and fix the problem, no matter how much of a small problem they say it may be, like they should.

The cold start rattle is the valve lifters when theyre cold, and the oil i still thick so thats why it makes noises. Mine kinda sounds like a diesel at idle as well when its warmed up, im reading that this is normal, a lot of people have this noise. Hm... weird.

This thread's from way back in 2002 .. I don't even think any of those members are still around.