MS Pro Engine vs. FS-ZE
October-2nd-2002, 05:59 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 234
MS Pro Engine vs. FS-ZE
I don't know if this makes sense so someone enlighten me. The MS Pro's engine has 170hp, right? Well, the FS-ZE has the same hp without a turbo. The question is, since both engine are for the Protege, isn't it possible to take the FS-ZE engine and directly bolt on the turbo and intercooler from the MS Pro and maybe get 200+hp if not more? I don't know. Just tring to put 2+2 together. I don't know if someone already covered this topic or not. I also didn't find anything about it in the FAQ either.
October-2nd-2002, 10:52 PM
#2
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
Very true. The FS-ZE actually makes less torque than the naturally aspirated FS-DE (132lb/ft - 135lb/ft respectively) The higher compression of the FS-ZE makes it a worse candidate for forced induction, due to its higher potential of detonation.
By the way how are you feeling Jesse? Hope you are doing ok man.
By the way how are you feeling Jesse? Hope you are doing ok man.
October-2nd-2002, 11:06 PM
#3
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
The FS-ZE with a turbo can make just as much power if not more than an FS-DE with a turbo, its just a pain in the *** to deal with detonation problems and tuning of higher compression engines and turbocharging. The precision of the tuning needs to be exact. No room for **** ups, or you engine will **** the bed. The FS-DE is a little more forgiving, however.
October-2nd-2002, 11:11 PM
#4
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
im doing well, thanks for asking.
as far as a canidate, im a big fan of high compression, low boost motors. I see them as more drivable, and they will still net good results. i see zero need for a 300whp FWD car. You cant put down that kind of power.
im doing well, thanks for asking.
as far as a canidate, im a big fan of high compression, low boost motors. I see them as more drivable, and they will still net good results. i see zero need for a 300whp FWD car. You cant put down that kind of power.
I did not think of it that way. An FS-ZE with lower boost would be decent to tune compared to one with higher boost. Marry a FS-ZE with a smaller light pressure, fast spooling turbo and it would be nice. I guess I was only thinking of the two engines with 8+psi of boost. The FS-ZE would need more attention with tuning
October-3rd-2002, 05:28 AM
#5
Always Flippin The Game
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 558
As someone who has the FS-ZE engine, I will tell you this. Your 1st task, to even get you the 170hp would be to tune your engine (FS-ZE). I probably only got like 150-155 hp the whole time I have had mine because the ECU from my ride is an OBD-II sanctioned device, and had emissions standards that cut the power. The FS-ZE ECU is OBD-I. I myself have the BEGI turbo kit, and have went back to the FS-DE stock compression (9.1:1), and have had my cylinders rebored (due to wall scratches). Why did I lower the compression? Drivability with the turbo. I need reliable transportation, and am not looking to make my MP3 a dragster. If you look in Corky Bell's Maximum Boost, you would make the quick connection between needing octane booster with every tank of gas, if I would have stayed with the 10.5:1 compression ratio, and the BEGI Turbo. He has a nice little graph that measures octane needs (detination protection) aginst compression.
October-3rd-2002, 08:03 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 234
Ok, when it comes to compression ratios, boost, and detonation(make all the jokes you want), I'm pretty much illiterate on that. I pretty much understood what you guy said somewhat, and now I know the FS-ZE can be turbo'd. What I'm trying to get at is which is better turbo'd, The FS-ZE or the FS-DE? I know you have to tweek both of them just right to get what you want out of them but I'm asking as in what's worth putting my money into and for drivability(as far as hp). Thanks for the feedback though.
October-3rd-2002, 11:29 PM
#7
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
That would be your decision...
To make a complicated issue somewhat simple, A higher compression engine in general will be more detonation prone than a lower compression engine. This only becomes really apperant once the pressure is raised considerably over the stock engines natural vacuum. If you are unsure about detonation, I would wait for Jesse to reply. He will have a better answer. Generally it is the firing of a piston before it reaches the end of (or beginning depending on how you look at it) the compression stroke. This can be caused by octane levels of fuel and extreme heat in the compression chamber, etc... Detonation is not good. In Rotary engines, which protege's don't have, one bad ping can end your fun for a while
Now back to the the FS thing. both are capable of being turbocharged. It is up to you on how much boost you want, your ultimate power goal, your streetability, and how much money you are willing to spend. The most cost effective would obviously be to turbo the engine you have, but i don't know the condition of your current engine.
To make a complicated issue somewhat simple, A higher compression engine in general will be more detonation prone than a lower compression engine. This only becomes really apperant once the pressure is raised considerably over the stock engines natural vacuum. If you are unsure about detonation, I would wait for Jesse to reply. He will have a better answer. Generally it is the firing of a piston before it reaches the end of (or beginning depending on how you look at it) the compression stroke. This can be caused by octane levels of fuel and extreme heat in the compression chamber, etc... Detonation is not good. In Rotary engines, which protege's don't have, one bad ping can end your fun for a while
Now back to the the FS thing. both are capable of being turbocharged. It is up to you on how much boost you want, your ultimate power goal, your streetability, and how much money you are willing to spend. The most cost effective would obviously be to turbo the engine you have, but i don't know the condition of your current engine.
Last edited by Installshield; October-4th-2002 at 02:24 PM.
October-4th-2002, 02:12 AM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 234
Alright, I have a 1.6L and I'm trying to swap for an engine with more hp. All I want is a little more power than the average Protege. I take that back. More than or just as much as the MS Protege which is around 170hp. I would like close to 200hp, that'll work for me. which of the two can do that for me at the CHEAPEST price. Keep in mind, I don't want to half step it. If I have to go all out I don't mind forking out the cash. I might race it on special occasions such as events for imports, but at ameteur levels. All I need is a start point, meaning which engine to chose and the money I'll spend. I need a figure on how much I'll spend so I can reach that goal and get my project going. If you guys could, give me some figures on both engines at about 180-185hp and I'll go from there.
October-4th-2002, 08:51 AM
#9
Always Flippin The Game
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 558
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
You wouldnt need octane booster with those pistons...just the right timing curve. IE, not a stock ecu.
And driveability? more compression = less lag and MORE driveability. It'll work a lot better off-boost too.
You wouldnt need octane booster with those pistons...just the right timing curve. IE, not a stock ecu.
And driveability? more compression = less lag and MORE driveability. It'll work a lot better off-boost too.
October-4th-2002, 01:59 PM
#10
Always Flippin The Game
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 558
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
im sorry,
i just understand why people will pay a couple of grand for a turbo kit and skimp as if their life depended on it for tuning....
i.... im not going to blow engines because i didnt want to spend an extra couple hundred bucks after already shelling out a couple grand.
im sorry,
i just understand why people will pay a couple of grand for a turbo kit and skimp as if their life depended on it for tuning....
i.... im not going to blow engines because i didnt want to spend an extra couple hundred bucks after already shelling out a couple grand.
October-5th-2002, 09:36 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 234
Good, now I have a goal. Ok PseudoRealityX, an FS-DE with a Flying miata kit is the way to go right? I'm not half stepping this so I need to know a rough est. on how much I'll spend to get 185-195hp without ever blowing my engine. Tell me something so I can work towards that amount. Where, who, and how much for a new or fairly used FS-DE. Same for a Flying miata kit, but I want a new one, no second hand turbo kits here. I'm just being on the safe side. Thanks to everyone for the help.
October-5th-2002, 10:31 PM
#13
That's me!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 337
The Flyin' Miata kit is still in development, but they are pushing for a price in $3500 range, not $4500. The first kit is a low-boost application capable of running at 8 psi and is supposed to be ready for sale sometime by the end of this month or next month (based on the ECU issues).
If you follow the threads in the F/I section, you'll see they are trying to figure out how to overcome the fuel issues from the stock ECU. However, if you go all out and get a fully programmable engine management system, you won't have to worry about that.
As for engine prices, check a junk yard.
If you follow the threads in the F/I section, you'll see they are trying to figure out how to overcome the fuel issues from the stock ECU. However, if you go all out and get a fully programmable engine management system, you won't have to worry about that.
As for engine prices, check a junk yard.
October-6th-2002, 11:52 PM
#14
That's me!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 337
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
eh, the price was just an estimate...and i didnt want to go under. You'd probably want to get an aftermarket clutch when you do it too. I doubt the stock clutch is gonna like 8lbs of boost for long.
eh, the price was just an estimate...and i didnt want to go under. You'd probably want to get an aftermarket clutch when you do it too. I doubt the stock clutch is gonna like 8lbs of boost for long.
October-7th-2002, 04:23 PM
#15
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
Yes the stock clutch may hold up at first to 8psi, but not for long. The MSP has a stronger clutch than the ES or P5 to deal with just 6psi. I also wonder how well the drive-axles would hold up at 8psi. That probably would not be as much of an issue with an open differential. It would become more apperant with a LSD.