btaira

Is the Suspension Techniques rear sway bar shaped exactly like the stock LX bar? I'm trying to determine if the only differences between the two bars are (1) one millimeter (21mm vs. 22mm) and (2) better bushings. For instance, do the end links mount closer to the center of the bar on the suspension techniques bar? It's my understanding that both bars are solid.

Finally, how much stiffer is a 22mm bar vs. a 21mm bar, all things remaining the same?

MikeD

For the most part it does follow the shape of the stock bar. It does sit out a bit lower (closer to the ground) when mounted than the stock bar...but you should have no problem with clearing obstacles like protruding man hole covers etc.

The same mounting locations are used as the stock bar. I believe in your case (having an lx) that both bars are solid. The 1mm difference should still make a big difference especially when you consider the Poly bushings will eliminate any slop the rubber bushings have.

Davard

I'll start with the first one. Early 1G Proteges have a 20 mm rear bar, so a 22 mm bar is 46.4% stiffer. For the later 1G proteges ('92 or later?) with a 21 mm bar, a 22mm bar is 20.4% stiffer.

And it doesn't quite follow the same contour as the factory bar, hanging down about 1/2" farther than stock. It made putting a floor jack under (on my very low car) a pain, but it only missed by about 1/8", so with two people or one 1" x 10", I had no prpblems. (or an empty trunk )

And both bars are solid.

If 22mm isn't stiff enough for you, you can always try the Compass 1" bar, which is 115% stiffer than your stock 21mm bar. You may have problems with the sway bar mounts, however. I pulled into a driveway at an angle too fast and pulled my mount out of the subframe. On Proteges, the mount is held with three spot welds...on Fords, it's held with several welds on the edges.

zenilder

No racing this weekend in SD, then, David?

I hope you can get it fixed easily.

Are you going to be at the SD event either way?

Davard

I generally don't run in San Diego, although maybe I should...my ego could use the boost.

Actually, most of their courses emphasize HP, which I don't have, and I get killed. And it's a 150 mile drive. Not a problem getting there, but the drive home usually takes 3.5-4 hours.

I rewelded the mounts before heading up to the Atwater Pro Solo, so it's fine, although at some point, I want to remove the subframe and clean up the welds.

btaira

David,

Thanks for the information. How did you figure out the exact increase in stiffness? What's the formula?

Also, before I forget, congratulations on your 4th place finish! People in San Diego often mention your name when they see my Protege (very few down here). I was hoping to keep a low profile with such a modest looking car. However, because of your success, everyone expects me to do well.

Finally, I need your expert opinion on the Compass sway bar. Do you think it's too big for the stock front bar (15/16")? Supposed I replace the front bar's rubber bushings/endlinks with polyurethane ones? My car is totally stock, except for the zx2 s/r struts.

Davard

Stiffness is diameter ^ 4th power. For example, 11mm^4 = 14,641. 10mm^4 = 10,000. 14,461/10,000 = 1.4641 . So, and 11mm bar is 46% stiffer than a 10 mm bar.

Tha compass 1" bar with the stock 22mm (7/8") front bar would likely give LOTS of oversteer... and VW-style massive rear wheel lift. But in stock classes, you aren't allowed to change the rear bar. And you should have a 21mm rear bar (mine came with 20mm rear bar). Urethane bushings are good, but won't get you too much difference. The only way to do much in stock is with the Mazdaspeed rear struts (which can be adjusted stiffer).

So, are you running R-tires? Or just street tires?

zenilder

Yeah. I checked out the SD course this weekend, and I would agree that it's a HP course. It had two long straightaways. It's a nice course, though. They have quite a lot more people there than the LA events, though, so you get to see a lot of cars. They had some -nice- cars there. A lot of Miatas, and I saw one MP5. A couple RX7s there, but not much else was there in the name of Mazda.

mazdaspeedwest

in SD there is usually a blue MP3 and a grey G1 Protege (btaria on this list) i beleive the yellow P5 is from the AZ region.

and when the schedule permits, there's also a blue G1

btaira

David,

Thanks for the formula! Good to know. As for your question, I am currently running street tires (Azenis 195/60/14).

I am curious about the rear bar because I am looking for a way to go faster around the course, without spending a lot of money (possible?). I realize that making any changes may put me in a more competitive class, but I'm okay with that if it makes the car more fun to drive.

How sure are you that the Compass bar will result in "LOTS" of oversteer? Do you know of anyone who has used the Compass bar with the stock front bar? I ask because I know that Compass does not sell a front bar. Also, when you say "lots" of oversteer, do you mean too much oversteer for autocrossing?

Finally, would a stiffer rear bar help more around the fast turns (sweepers) or the slow (tight) turns? Or both?

Davard

I don't think Gary drives fast enough to get the car to rotate.

You can also keep it from rotating with generous amounts of rear toe-in. Likewise, a little more rear toe-out will make it tend towards oversteer. (Toe-in = stable, toe-out = unstable, sort of like the difference between a Cessna and an F-16) Another way of looking at it, try driving a backwards fast in a straight line, and then try turning. Hard to keep the front end behind the rear.

Anyway... Running street tires, you are at a disadvantage to those running race tires in HS, and might consider playing in STS (this would let you try bars, springs, etc), although in San Diego, STS seems to be a couple of seconds faster than HS. (Not many HS cars in LA).

But as Jesse says, there is no substitute for seat time. Hit as many practices as you can. If you've run against Art Rinner, he started last year and hit every event (practice and championship event) that didn't conflict. He usually wins STS in San Diego.

btaira

Does Art Rinner drive a Sentra SE-R in STS? Is he from LA?

I have considered switching to STS for exactly that reason - I don't want the expense of running race tires. I also feel like I would get better value out of things that don't wear out (springs, sway bar, bushings)

How long has Compass been making the bar? I can't believe I can't find any Protege/Escort AUTOCROSSERS (other than Gary) who uses just the rear bar. I even searched a number Escort sites.

David, don't you have the CMS rear and ST front bars? Did you find it necessary to upgrade the front after switching to the CMS bar? Or did you put both on at the same time?

Davard

Yep. Art drives a black SE-R.

I think Compass came out with the bar about a year ago. Will Kalman was the first person other than Gary that I know was running it. And he started last year at about this time.

I had the ST F/R bars before I got the CMS rear. It rotates a little better with the bigger rear bar. One problem is that the brackets he provides with the bar really need to be re-bent in order to work. So, I still have the ST rear sitting in my garage.

mazda disciple

interested in selling the st rear bar ? For the love of god I have not been able to get a hold of anyone at compass so I need to take alternate means of getting a rear bar.

Davard

What do you suppose it's worth? I think they're about $150 new. It's just sitting in the garage.

BTW, you aren't the only person who can't get in touch with Gary at Compass. After his move from Oregon to the midwest, he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.