rkives

I own a Canadian 90 GT that has 307000 KM's on it (190000 Miles) still on the original clutch! This thing has been great since I picked it up in 90! I have only ever had to replace the radiator. (top tank problem) Anyway, I am thinking of freshening up the old girl and was wondering about anyone's experiences regarding updrading vs rebuilding the motor. Any suggestions for reputable vendors north of the border would also be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Maz94Protege

BPT? (aka the turbo engine)

there is also a place somwhere in Canada that puts in V6 Turbo engines in 323's and Proteges. Look on Groharlems website. there is a guy on there with the V6 in his 323.

http://groharlem.tripod.com

Davard

My friend just last year rebuilt the motor in his '91 EGT (same motor) after 212k miles (original clutch). He had his done in SoCal at Mazda experts Tri-Point. But any competent shop should be able to do the job, providing they use Mazda (or equivalent or better) parts. Another advantage is that Mazda uses the '94-spec pistons, which are slightly higher compression (9.0:1 vs 8.8:1). You might also use later Miata pistons, although I don't know if those achieve their higher compression (9.5:1) through piston change or head change.

While he had the engine out of the car, he replaced all the hoses and other expendable parts, had the fuel injectors blueprinted, and put in a new OE-replacement clutch (the original was still in good shape, but with 212k miles, it made sense to replace).

The whole thing cost about $3k US, but his car is still in good condition, and he figured if he got another 3 years out of it, he was money ahead (as opposed to the depreciation of a new car, not to mention insurance and registration).

You could also go through and replace half-shafts, wheel bearings, and suspension bushings at the same time. Depending on how much of the work you do yourself, this could be a worthwhile propostion.

This is also an opportunity to hot-rod the car.

BTW, the Protege GT is a Canada-only model (U.S LX with a rear wing).

protejay

AND PICS of the SEATS!! still would like to know what they look like/Why they're so good

protejay

My 3 cent view:
If the engine is still fine/has been well maintained, no NEED to rebuild....but if you got the $$$$, go for some performance!
I'm fixing up my car, but was going to wait on the rebuild since the engine for the most part is fine and i don't have the $$$$ for everything .
As far as NA or FI...if my engine had 100,000 miles, i prob would go for a turbo - its 'ez' - just an add-on; but since its at 200,000, i prob will go performance NA - as a rebuild gives you the oppurtunity to do it.

rkives

I looked through my collection of photo's, but only found these from my digital camera:
[IMG]d:\temp\interior.jpg[/IMG]
these are the seats and my son in a Canadian GT, I will take some current pics of the car, and post them tommorrow,
[IMG]d:\temp\odometer2.jpg[/IMG]
I had to take a pic of the odometer cresting 300K!

Thanks again for the info, I will see if the Vancouver shop is still open, otherwise, I'll get it sent in from T.O.

rkives

Well, I can't find the FAQ to upload pics to this forum, and It doesn't seem like my "MSN" pics are working for this message board so I will just post the URLs to the pics for now.

CDN GT Pics

rkives

So, as a daily driver car, where reliability is key, is the consensus here to rebuild the current motor with new top and bottom end with some performance goodies (which ones give you best bang for the $) or just buy a J-spec GTX motor and plug it in?
I guess what im fishing for is the reliablity/performance ratio of these turbo motors vs performance NA motor.

Rick

90 GT 5 speed totally stock

rkives

Well, the engine does burn a bit of oil. Probably about the same as your friends car prior to rebuild. The engine still pulls well and the clutch is not slipping. I guess I came into this project thinking "Im past 300K, Im running on borrowed time, modern cars aren't built to run much past that. I have the $$ now, might as well do it before it is a surprise." Thats when I started looking around the web for info on this project. I thought that if I had the engine out, I might as well throw in some go fast goodies. Only to come across Gro Harlems' site and found that I may just be able to plug in a J spec motor and that would be that. At present, I am trying to locate a importer of these engines North of the Border to try to save a bit of time and $. I found an outfit in Montreal that brings these in for about $2000 CDN plus shipping for the GTX w/ 3 month warranty or I could drive down to Oregon and pick one up from Corksport for about 1700 CDN no warranty. I have also found that locally I could pick up another DOHC like mine for $750 with low milage and I could spend the extra $$ on exhaust and suspension bits. All in all I have about $4000 CDN to freshen up the car, not including paint. I just want to spend the money wisely and add a bit more umph to the to the throttle

BTW what is a JDM engine?

If you were in my shoes where would you spend the $$?

Davard

The question about doing a rebuild depends mainly on whether the engine has anything wrong with it. The only reason my friend rebuilt his was that it was consuming oil (about 1 qt/300-500 miles). Otherwise, it ran OK.

So, if your engine is still working well (no oil usage, no noticeable loss of performance, clutch not slipping, etc), then there really isn't a reason to rebuild yet.

My friend's clutch probably would have made it to 300k miles, but since it was out of the car, it was a no-brainer to replace. And since he planned on keeping the car for at least another 3-5 years, it was a good investment.

You could also just buy a used JDM engine. While not terribly plentiful, for $400 or so, they are a lot cheaper than a rebuild. Most are in good condition, and as a bonus, they are rated at 135hp, and have 9.5:1 compression, IIRC.

(edit) OK, weirdness. This one obviously appeared before the post above, but it's posted below it.

Davard

JDM is a motor that came originally in a Japanese car. Due to their extreme safety regs, limited driving distances, and expensive gas, they have a supply of low mileage engines available. Since they can't use them in their cars, rather than melt them down, they send over to the North America, where we run cars until they fall apart.

What would I do? If you don't mind the complications of making things work, the GTX motor is a great way to go. Hard to complain about 180+ hp. But for ease of the job, the JDM engine is probably the way to go. I would do that, but the class I race in requires a stock engine (JDM engine is better, but not totally legal). It should easily pass any sniffer test.

protejay

I've been rethinking ...
I keep overlooking the fact that INSTEAD of rebuilding, you could get the GTX motor....

How about a GTX turbo motor AND a Quaiffe LSD!!
That would make for a FINE Protege

Another possibility, rebuild and overbore it to a 2.0; THEN install a 'turbo kit' and an LSD and wallah! you've got one SERIOUS Pro ....but that's going to take buuuuuucks
Still, WHY NOT do that; instead of making new car payments???

rkives

I was wondering if anyone has done an overbore? From my readings on many of the engine sites on the web, it seems to indicate that; because of the fine tolerances with these motors, rebuilds are not suggested and they mainly suggest buying a used engine instead. One site said that you were asking for trouble machining these engines?
Again, my motivation is reliablity, along with gains in HP
This after all, is why I have been so happy with my Protege in the first place.
These JDM DOHC motors that David suggested, I have not heard of these in my Web searches. Anyone one suggest a vendor for these?
I am beginning to think, JDM DOHC w/ inhanced intake and exhaust systems would possibly yeild 140+ NA HP? Update the suspension, I enjoy Lateral G's much more after all!

What do the "Turbo Kit's" cost? would it make sense to plug one of these on to a low mile JDM motor?

I haven't priced out a LSD, I guess that would help in putting down the power out of a corner, again I would like to keep it to about $4000 CDN in parts.

Rick

protejay

i haven't seen anything about problems boring and rebuilding BP's. over at www.miataforum.com , there seems to be plenty of guys have done rebuilds and overbores....

Quaiffe LSD's are only available from www.mazdamotorsports.com they're expensive - IIRC about $1200US - and i understand you'll also need the MX-6's bigger driveshafts... plus getting it installed correctly in your trans.
If you had the money though, it'd be worth it.

I'm sorta in your same shoes...i'm fixing up everything about my car - just not doing anything to the engine block or head since its not necessary yet....

jdal711

A question for us 'lil' guys (ie 323 1.6 SOHC 8v).
A different thread implied a 2 step turbo upgrade - swap the DOHC 16v head 1st, then bolt on the turbo later ? If I install a B6T Capri turbo head, would my NA ex manifold bolt up ? Which NA ex manifold would work ?

I guess the 'turbo' in manifold/ throttle body/ fuel rails should be part of the 1st step. What about the ECU/ MAF ? Do I keep my NA stock for the 1st step, then wire in the Capri ECU (w/ RX7 MAF?) with the turbo ? Or do I buy two ECUs - an NA DOHC 16v for the 1st step, a turbo ECU/ MAF for the 2nd ?

As for fuel, another thread (from FordFestiva) tells how to increase the rate of stock fuel pump (run larger gauge wire, reduce resistance, increase current, increase flow) so that leaves the larger injectors for step 2.

Any thoughts/ confirmations/ suggestions?