200+ Hp '91 323 Se?
 

What's the most cost effective route in my pursuit of a 323 with 200+ HP? I have a '91 SE and I'm not sure what to do.

put in a bpt or kl-ze at corksport

you can also talk to Braden (Turboge on this board) from Barely Legal Transplants, he imports engines and is very knowledgable about the turbo set-ups.


http://www.barelylegaltransplants.com

What do you guys think this is going to cost? I heard you can't swap in a BPT into a US spec 323 unless you have something to manage fuel and stuff. Why can't you just use the BPT ECU and call it good?

You can. You can also use an ECU from a Protege LX, but it's generally not reccomended. I asked Braden a while back what it would cost to do a BPT swap RIGHT. He said upwards of $5k. The main reason is because you have to steal a lot of the parts from a Protege LX, ones that the 323s don't have, or wouldn't work with the BPT.

I'm planning on going KL-ZE, it's $4300 canadian for the swap including labor costs. I figure if I get that plus a custom 2.5" exhaust, ACT clutch, and a few other goodies, I'd probably spend about $4000. The KL series V6 is a SWEET sounding engine, plus I don't want to have to worry about possible reliablity issues with the turbo. BPT has more potential power I guess within reason, but a 13sec NA car (damn close to stock) is pretty quick for me.

$4k?! Damn. It doesn't cost that much to swap a third gen J-Spec engine into my MR2. No way would I spend that on this little 323. If I was tryin to spend that much, I'd just buy a GTX. Looks like I'm gonna stick with my 73hp or whatever these have and go down the "looks only" road. I guess I have the R6 for speed anyway.

U need a bpt-1200 shipped
Ecu around 450
Fuel pump-prob 150-200
intercooler-200 if u find a starion or npr and do ur own piping
lx transmission with axiles prob another 350-400
guages another 200

So ur looking at from 2500-3000 for a decent setup if u install it all urself. For 5 grand ur running a haltech with bigger injectors and bigger intercooler. i would think . When im done mine will be around 7000 with a GTR motor FMIC haltech upgraded fuel system and gauges. And u will need a stronger Clutch also ...Jon

Yea, unfortunately speed costs $$$. It's not like the domestic world of muscle where you can find hp just about everywhere for cheap. Hell, just an exhaust and intake on a z28 would probably be at least 20whp.

I'm possibly looking for a bike (my first), but I haven't decided if I'm going to spend money on that or just put it into my crappy little 323 :)

Well u could swap in a lx motor with 125 hp and when u get more money u can put a vj20 and turbo it ...Jon

.....or get a bike and smoke any car out there......:D

And crash a bike and lose ur arms and legs ...Have fun ..Jon

it's the same engine and it's just as much work....i suppose it could be done if in a pinch, but if it were me, i'd do what it took to do it right the first time.

besides, who says you can't throw in a B6T.... less money, less work, less hp, but that can be fixed. they are just as strong as the BP/BPT. You can find 200hp out of a B6T easy.

Yeah I have the bike for REAL speed. It would be nice to give my daily driver a little Unf though. I have the money to do a BPT swap, but I'm not going to spend $4k on it. I MIGHT spend $2k but that would be about where I draw the line.

I've heard alot about B6T's. They put those in Festiva's. What would it take to swap one of those in? It's hard to believe the BPT is the only option for 200HP.

It's not cheap to hook up a car. i think 2500 is cheap compared to people that spend that much on just the turbos that go on there cars... if u dont want speed dont worry about it

I just have a hard time spending four times what the car costs on making it go about twice as fast.

u bought it for 500 bucks?. Its apart of the game. u can always rice it up and put alot of stickers. They add 20 hp each!!!..Jon

Nah I bought it for $1000. They were talking about $4k to do the swap. I'm tryin to make it look clean either way, fast or not. I promise I'm not going to rice it up :D

If u find the hook ups scrap some parts together im sure u can do a turbo swap for around 2 grand.. i have no idea how much a b6t is maybe 600?. But u will need to do all the work urself. A shop will charge u 1500 at least ...Jon

Doin the work isn't a problem. I just wanna know how much I'm lookin at for the parts and stuff.

Around 2000 ...Jon

like i said, the B6T can easily put out 200hp. Heck you can build a N/A BPD to 200hp if you want.....

the saying goes..."speed costs money........so how fast do you wanna go?"

your options, in no particular order.

KL-ZE 2.5L V6 = 200hp (JDM)
KL03 2.5L V6 = 170hp
KL08 = 1.8L V6 = 130hp (don't bother, but it's an option)
BPT = 180hp GTX / 200hp GTR (JDM)
~$4000 (more for the GTR BPT)

BPD = 125hp
BP = 103hp (SOHC) (don't bother but it's an option)
B6T = 130hp
~$2500

When building any car with an engine swap it's not going to be cheap, but that's what wrecking yards are for. All the parts are right there waiting for you to give them a new home in a race car....

joey, most of what these guys discuss is basically theory because most of them have never done any of the swaps.

realisitcally we could produce a car that is well into the 200hp area for around 2k. BP engine and get the internals to lower the compression. the rings on the US spec pistons are equal to or better than those of the GTR. the secret some of these guys dont know is that the head from the protege LX is better flowing than the head on the GTR. the spring rates on the valve springs may be a tiny bit higher on the GTR but essentially they are the same, oil squirters and all.

with this option you can ad any kind of turbo you want. i have a garrett T03 to do a custom match up to a jspec manny. EASY to get done to say the least. you can use the 1.6l tranny up to a certain amount of boost but then itll blow as well as the LX tranny. Corksport blows LW trannies daily with a mostly stock GTR engine.

so basically if your not in a huge hurry to get the car to be ungodly fast, you can get the job done for 2k. not to mention with all the connections we have, wse can get alot of custom work done.

I just said that. But ur better off spending the extra 500 to make ur car safe. Im not sure what turbo u wanna use the gtx turbo and manifold sell for like 400-500 why not just get the motor for 1000 and have a engine made for boost. As far as the lx transmission i think its all how u drive the car. Just dont give it any hard launches and it should be fine. Most BP motors have around 70-100k U can get a GTX motor with a turbo and manifold built for boost with 36k for like 5-600 more. The key to doing a cheap swap is knowing the right people and doing the install urself. I want my car to be fast and very reliable. ... Go to www.barelylegaltransplants.com and talk to him about ur needs.. Why run a 1.6 liter tranny in ur car? its double the work u know its gonna blow and u can get a lx tranny for 150-200 ...Jon

k i'm getting a j-spec bp out of a pro with low km for $1200 cnd i picked this instead of a bpt cause the bpt was 2000 cnd and i don't even what that cause i'm gonna get a better manifold and a better turbo
then a j-spec pro lx tranny cause it has low km and for a good price 700 cnd, around here the cheapest tranny u can find is like 1000 cnd for one with 180k on it
then alot of money on stuff for the swap, more then 2000 cnd
mazda speed motor mount
Fidanza Flywheel
ACT Street Performance Clutch for the mx-6
CORK SPORT Bronze Oil Bushings
CORK SPORT SS Clutch Line
and other stuff

pics here
http://www.cardomain.com/id/marlonmx3

and this is just what i need for n/a
for turbo ths list goes on

than 1000 cnd for labour at a good hignend shop to get it done right

so for around $3200 us u can have a nice turbo ready car

I have a BP with 216K KM's on it.
Engine, tranny, axles, ecu, wiring harnes.. I'll sell for 1200 canadian.

these people got there heads up their ass
 

if you want to get 200+bhp you will want the 1.8ldohc its reccommended anyways but 4k is a little too much... i have a 323 1.8l DOHC with 4 wheel disc brakes (equivelent to the GTX except for AWD and turbo) you can pick up the turbo manifold if your lucky on ebay sometimes and or from corksport if you want to add a turbo to the 1.8l your self and do it the right way...

if you want the 323 to make real power you need to buy a cheap protege' LX 90-94 with a good motor... and if your in the area of the Greatlakes i'll do the swap for you... a hell of a lot cheaper then 4 g's.... plus your stopping power is a hell of alot nicer then before...:D

any questions ?

i plan on swapping the 1.8 DOHC in then getting turboge's setup for turbo. plus new tranny and clutch and after all the necessary pieces. i figure this is way cheaper then taking the "easy" way and buying a complete gtx or r motor all the way from japan or somewhere else. after all..."cheap, reliable, fast; you can only pick two."

like i said before I can do the BP 1.8l swaps for alot cheaper then four grand... ive already done 2 1.8l bp LX motor swaps into 2 seperate 323's and its not that hard ... if you can get ahold of some parts from a GTR motor such as the sodium cooled hollow exhaust valves and the springs you might even have better results... i reccomend customizing everything... the way YOU want it...

If you need a 1.8l swap done
and your in the great lakes area...
GIVE me a call 608-846-7707
ask for Ryan, Aron, or Brandon


And whats this i Hear about the GTR block being a bit stronger???
from everything i know It was to be of the same mold as all the other blocks in the BP series....?

Ryan

OH and for all the Turbo fans out there...

IM working on developing a centrifugal SUPERCHARGER for the protege' or at least the BP series motors...

got a lot of testing and more modifications to do still but i will keep all informed...

planning on having the first SC come out last summer at the max...


S.S.T. Performance

Ryan

OH and for all the Turbo fans out there...

IM working on developing a centrifugal SUPERCHARGER for the protege' or at least the BP series motors...

got a lot of testing and more modifications to do still but i will keep all informed...

planning on having the first SC come out late summer at the max...


S.S.T. Performance

Ryan

sorry about the mistake there.... meant to say LATE summer...

not last summer

but if you think about it, in the long run your only spending about half the money someone else is spending on some other turboed car. and there only making about a third of the power. so it all evens out for me. :)

cant wait to get my BPT in :D

Thats how i see it too, ..Jon

Re: these people got there heads up their ass
 

whose got whose head up up thier ass?

how can you have better stopping power with just an engine swap?

i still stand firm that the B6T can produce 200hp. It's every bit as strong as the BP.

I know you can do the swap for cheaper than $4k, but that's a good ballpark figure for doing it RIGHT. For instance, yes you can use a Pro LX ecu for the BPT, but it's not the RIGHT way to do it. An ECU out of the GTX would be a good way to go, a standalone would be even better, you could tune it just right if you had the knowhow. Not to mention what about a better clutch? Could you use the stock clutch? Sure, but how long would it hold up? What about the piping for the IC and intake? That costs of dinero... Then you have to worry about an exhaust, you don't want to be running on less than a 2.25"-2.5" on the BPT. Unless you can do the work yourself (which most people can't), it's going to cost you.

Looking at Braden's swap guide, $4k seems like a reasonable estimation.

http://webpages.charter.net/sector32...ide/wdi323.htm

well preference is preference... We shall wait to see what i can do................................................ ...............................................

keep your mind open for options... that seems like the right thing to do i think.

there is many other routes to take...but they are also more expensive as well

I think that's what he's saying ..Jon

Well if ur looking for some serious power in ur 323 i should suggest this great buy from www.barelylegaltransplants.com hes selling a low miles BPT 180 Hp turbo motor with ECU for 1300 not shipped. And will need no fuel upgrades for a few hundred more u will have a turbo 323 pumping 200 hp plus ... Shipping is as low as 125 depending where u are but max like 250 i would think ... Jon

got my BPT for $999 not shipped. i picked it up from a company right down the street. :)

now, just waiting on installation...

Hey PseudoReality, you know anyone that's done that? I've heard alot of good things about doing that but it seems it's not done very often. I'd really like to hear more about it because I'm leaning in that direction.