Mazdasped 3 vs. WRX??
 

Ok, so I hear the Mazdaspeed 3 is probably going to cost like $25k. That puts it right into WRX price range. I like Mazda and all, but give me a break, are you really going to pass up a WRX for a 170hp, front wheel drive, orange car?? What do you guys think? I think that at <$21k it would be a great deal, but not at 25...

I think that was supposed to be the price in canadian currency that they were hoping for, but I'd assume as much as $30k can.

I could be wrong though... I don't see that car being $25... at least I hope.

I think it's a great alternative to the WRX... Sure, AWD is great for launches, but AWD also adds a lot of weight and sapping power. I haven't seen any dynos, but I'd assume the WRX suffers from a high % of drivetrain HP loss.

While the flywheel HP is about a 50 HP difference between the WRX and the Mazdaspeed, I think it's safe to say the difference in HP at the wheels would be cut as much as half of that. That's probably being a little optimistic, but AWD really robs power.

Also, I've never driven an AWD vehicle, so I'm not sure about the handling, but you better believe the mazdaspeed will have top notch handling in terms of inexpensive production cars. I think everyones expectations are MP3 handling if not better, and many magazines, etc. have praised the MP3 for it's handling.

All in all, it's not a very close comparison, even if the cars were made to compete in the same market. I'd take the mazdaspeed anyday, AT LEAST to be different, amoung other reasons.

Tell that to a stock Subbie doing 5.7 seconds 0-60 mph to a projected 7 second for the Speed3. ;)

Yeah but that ain't cool, we talking about as a daily driver. The WRX will smoke the Mazdaspeed Protege. And 0-60 is a combination of both traction and power not just one or the other.

It Doesn't matter how fast the Mazda is, you won't be able to drive fast anyway, since every cop is going to see you a MILE away-The car is bright Orange!:barf:

Hillsboro, Or- I am going to be there on the weekend of the 19th for the Rally

WRX has 227 HP

Oh there's no way that they won't meet 170 hp. Then it would make the car really unattractive, especially to those that don't also look at the torque...

I mean, how could they not attain 170 hp with a turbocharged 2.0 L engine?

I guess we'll wait and see.

I say bring Peugot 206 over here, WRC spec or not, doesn't matter!!! :D

Okay, here's actually my final verdict, but unfortunately, this is based largely on what I've seen in an MP3, and from what I remember of the WRX at an auto show last year.

Interior- MS Protege in a blowout. Starting from the finish, colours, on to the audio system.

Exterior- MS Protege again in a blowout. This is totally subjective though as I think that Subarus are ugly. Nicer wheels help too

Power- WRX obviously. 227 hp to 170hp... torque numbers that somebody calculated came out to 160ish for the Protege? Not sure about WRX but I'm sure it's around 210

Handling- In normal conditions, MP3 maybe a slight edge, especially if it beat the WRX time around a street track as claimed by Callaway people. In snow, rain, mud, etc. WRX obviously because of the AWD. If you're in Florida though, that's useless hehe.

There you have it, please correct me if I'm wrong...

I go for the MS Protege (uh oh, MS Protege, not Microsoft again!), and pocket the change that I have left over from not getting the WRX. This is because of the looks for me though, and the fact that I love my Protege right now. I'm biased, so what.

Re: Mazdasped 3 vs. WRX??
 

If the MS 3 is going to cost 25K canadian, then I would qualify that as a decent price. A P5 goes for about 21K + tax with all the goodies up here. A WRX is 34K + tax, so you are talking a 13K dollar difference in price. My only true concern is that if you have problems with this MS 3 while under warrenty it would probably take a while to get fixed. If you have problems with it not under warrenty. Well lets just say it aint gonna be cheap to fix a car that 99% of mechanics haven't see before. At least the WRX is a full production car that has a good parts base.
my $0.02

Stocker

Jesse, im not following you on the target thing. Do you think the 170 is high or low?

Another thing I was thinking about was the aftermarket support for the WRX...

If the MS3 rings in at $22k that would be a pretty good deal, but I bet it gets dealer markup...

I'm pretty sure Jesse thinks that Mazda is low-balling the power figures toruqe and/or horsepower.

The MS pro has the same aftermarket WE have now. Also, there's not a whole lot left to do to the car except for a boost controller.

I agree there will be some dealer markup. They'll sell the car for the market demand, which seems to be high. What can you do?

I'm a crazy fool... If I had the cash to lay down on one of those puppies, I'd do it dealer markup or not (within reason). Damn I need a fulltime job! :o

Let's see. 170hp at 5500 rpm is 162 ft.lbs of torque at that rpm, which is higher than the 155 ft.lbs at 4500 rpm torque figure.

Another way of looking at it. 170 hp is only 30 hp more than the MP3, and 40 more than the regular 2.0L engine. And the 155 ft.lbs rating is only 13 ft.lbs more than the MP3 and 20 ft.lbs more than the regular 2.0.

Only 20 ft.lbs would be hard to manage. For it's low-pressure turbo, Volvo raises the power from 168 hp and 170 ft.lbs to 197 hp and 210 ft.lbs. And this is far from a performance application.

The last 2.2L F-series turbo was rated at only 145 hp, but at only 4300 rpm. Most mags said that the power figure was more like 185 hp, and acceleration times proved that out.

And 0-60 times are a big traction indicator. My Altima runs 0-60 in about 6.3 secs (compared to the WRX at 5.4-5.7). But at the end of the 1/4 mile, the Altima is going at least 5 mph faster, and with a good launch, it will beat it to the end by a good 1/2 sec. or more. This in a 200 lb heavier car with only 13 more Hp.

Other things to consider. The Protege is much larger inside. No way anyone can sit behind me in a WRX (I'm a tall 6'3"), unless they don't have legs. But the Protege has plenty of room.

And the WRX achieves it's amazing performance at the expense of daily driving ease. The engine is largely dead below 3500 rpm. Unless you're willing to be at full-throttle all the time, you will be lagging behind traffic (I realize that for some people, this isn't a problem, but for the rest of us, it probably is.). IIRC, the WRX uses 14psi boost. Presumably, there isn't a lot more (safely) in the engine (if local SM autocrossers are any gauge). Not to mention the fragile trannies (which is fixed with the upcoming STi version's 6-speed).

Im not disagreeing at all, but this would also hold true for the WRX. For the same amount of effort, you would start your tuneing with ~50hp more? (if 170hp is right) I guess this whole discussion is moot if the price of the MS3 is <$22k. I was looking at HP per dollar when I started the thread.

the 240hp altima runs 14.9 1/4mi
the 227hp WRX runs 14.1 1/4mi

cobb tuning sells an upgrade that'll put the WRX at 320hp but, it seems that the tranny is the weak point on the car.

The altima's car run mid-low 14s stock. There was one with only an intake and ran a 13.95 or something. There was some controvesy over the timeslip, but they can do better than a 14.9

Honestly, I've read 2 mags that put the altima at 14.9. One compares the altima and the 260hp maxima, which ran a 15.0 or 15.1. So, I need something tangible to be convinced the altima runs mid 14s (not sayin it can't happen, I'd just like proof).

Many people assume that becuase the WRX competes in WRC it can handle well but, like Jesse stated, that's not the case (in stock form). The MP3's handling puts the WRX to shame.

No offense, but don't be a magazine racer. I used to frequently visit maxima.org, and ocassionally altimas.net. New 2002 Maximas with 6-spd were pulling 14.3s BONE stock, a few people did it, and there is room to improve. The altima guys and the maxima guys are always arguing over who's faster, and the cars ARE very comprable in speed. It's very close. Do some research before you make up your mind about a car, the magazine's don't know it all.

Like I said, I'm not saying it's not possible but, it's hard to discount mags when they have professional drivers test the cars. Hell, I've seen people on this board post that their car runs 15s and I'm definitely not buying into that without a time slip.

V6:rolleyes:

Here's one of the faster tests: Motorweek Altima test 0-60 in 5.9, 1/4 in 14.4 @ 100mph. As a comparison, here is theirWRX test. 0-60 in 5.6, 1/4 in 14.3 @ 95mph.

And the 14.9 Altima vs 15.0 Maxima was in Sport Compact Car. The surface they ran at was very slippery (probably 2.8-3.0 60 foot times), and the weather was very hot. Also 1200 ft. above sea level. Not truly representative of what the car can do. Both cars times are launch dependent, but it's far easier to get a good launch in the WRX. Just dump the clutch. Spinning the tires is easy in the Altima. Not spinning too much is the trick.

And in stock form, the WRX is very loose, and the ABS is SOOOO bad, that most people pull the fuse to autocross. Actually, the ABS isn't that bad, it's just calibrated for dirt and gravel. So the lockup threshold is very low and slow. But, there are plenty of suspension parts that make the WRX into a nice handling car. But for me, the back seat was way too small, and the interior felt cheaper than even the Protege (a much less expensive car).

I think if the MazdaSpeed 3 really does come in at US $25K, that's too much and there will be a lot of people who will go to the WRX. But if it's US $22K, the handling difference may help compensate for the HP difference and they might do OK. I can't wait to see one of the MS3's...

Well, MS Proteges will all sell out guaranteed. Reason is the limited amount. Two major flaws are the power and colour selection. Although Black Mica will be beautiful, Canada only get the Orange one :dunno:

22k US is a decent price. You get what you pay for, so if you guys want a turbo, you'll have to pay a bit extra for one. Really when you compare the pricing with the other cars, it's about right. WRX is more, and you get a bit more power. Neon is less, but it's ugly, and the reliability rep is lacking among other things...

By the way, at the Vancouver Auto Show, I asked the Mazda guy about it, and they said that they're aiming at at least 180 hp for the Mazdaspeed Protege, and that Canada is getting 250 Orange ones. Little does he know that it's only 170hp :D