170hp Mazdaspeed Protege... This Is Why Power is Limited
 

I just heard from a little birdie (a different birdie from where I heard the $22k price tag) that the reason for the Mazdaspeed Protege's rather conservative 170hp rating is the tranny. Apparently, our trannies can't take a huge amount of power and Mazda wants to ensure that the trannies will last. They tried boost levels that brought power well into the 200+ hp range, but it destroyed the tranny in their test mules. And, designing a beefed up tranny wouldn't be feasible for such a limited run without boosting the price much more than it is.

I'm sure there's some room for improvement... but the Mazda has to take longevity (at least until the warranty is up) into consideration.

-Jerry

BTW, the California Mazda Protege Meet is tomorrow and I still have room for 9 more vehicles on my permit. We'll have food and drink, awesome raffle prizes from Kartboy.com, and some goodies from Mazda. Check out this thread for the full details on what's going to be there and check out the website in my sig below for directions and other pertinent information!

-Jerry

REally? How much extra would one look to spend to beef up the tranny in case someone wanted to turn up the boost???

I think they consider all reliability issues under worst case conditions for people that can't drive for shit. The good thing is that it's a factory turbo car. Much easier to mod when the basics are already there. I'm sure you can 'tweak' it a little and get it in the 200-230 range and still be reliable as long as you aren't abusive on the car. I'm looking forward to them coming out and may end up getting one if nothing else is more appealing.

Well, I certainly hope it's under worst case conditions, because the turbo kits coming out, such as the BEGI kit, would prove to be useless. I doubt, and HOPE, the trannys are THAT fragile.

But the P5s in Japan are 170hp.

Besides, I'm not looking for 200+ hp. Just give me 170hp (heck, or even 150hp) and I'm a happy camper :)

I would also hope that Japan has a better driver education requirement than what we have. Oh wait, we don't have one....

Roger Foo's P5 touring car is putting out 230 horses from his FS motor, i beleive he is using a stock G-15M-R tranny the same that is equiped in our cars. I've watched all the races he's been in and he has not had any problems with his tranny and he beats on it pretty hard. Besides the fact he has skill.

didn't he HAVE tranny problems that bogged him down in the first race at Sebring? or am I smoking too much happy weed? :D

Another point: horsepower does not break trannies, TORQUE does. Race-prepped FS-ZE's may put out a lot of power, but the powerband is way up in the rev range (6000+ rpm). The turbo on the new Mazdaspeed Pro is going to have relatively low boost, which means it will probably spool quickyl and put out more low and midrange torque than an FS-ZE.

:D
Happy weed :D

LOL :D

:D

you say that now.............. :D

yeah, transmission problems or something in like the first two or three races I think

Yes its torque that destroys the tranny. It makes sense, since torque is a measure of the twisting force, rather than how much work is being done in a certain amount of time-HP.

Roger's P5 isn't the only Protege in the series. There are about 7 others that race in the series pretty regularly. Granted, they are all built up normally aspirated engines, which probably won't produce the same torque an 8psi turbo system will, but they are using them in highly stressed situations. So far most of the issues I've heard people complain about with Mazda's transaxles are bent shift forks, or damaged synchromesh. Both of those problems can be easily avoided by proper driving techniques, such as not slamming the shifter from gear to gear, and matching engine and vehicle speed properly for each gear. I'd like to hear from someone who has broken a GEAR or SHAFT in either the F or G type transaxles, or even a drive shaft for that matter.

No. I say what I mean. Yeah, I'm sure no one can ever get enuff power. Maybe I need to be more specific. I'm saying i'm happy with 170hp or even 150hp given that the price of the car stays the same or doesn't change by much.

I'm sure they can make a 4 liter V8 P5 and slap a $50K price tag on it. But I wouldn't buy it. :)

Back to the topic, there's another reason why the mazdaspeed protege only comes with 170hp.

Ford wants the SVT focus to be the quickest sport compact car. Ford owns Mazda, so they won't let them run more boost to get the hp over the SVT.

So why don't they make the mustang hotter, and make everyone happy by raising the bar just that little bit?

About the trannies, why not bring in an outside partner like they did with the svt focus for the transmission. A Getrag 6 speed would be sweet in a turbo pro.

Ghetto?
 

I think it's a cop out to rate vehicles at the crank. The power that counts is what gets to the road and it pisses me off that if I want to get numbers that reflect what I actually feel, I have to wait for some magazine to test it. It seems to me that the only reason this is done is because one car maker did it and got away with it and the others had to follow suit or thier cars would look slow.

I see no benefit to consumers in giving us crank numbers. It sure would make it easier to compare cars if the dealers lcould list what got to the road. Perhaps there is a reason and I'm just missing it. Comments?

quote:
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Originally posted by PseudoRealityX

They've done it before....the early turbo Probes could at least keep up with Mustang GTs....one of the reasons why the 1st gen probes were rated at the wheels, not at the crank.
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Actually, they rated it at the flywheel, but at only 4300 rpm, when the peak was at closer to 5500-5800rpm. Estimates by the magazines was closer to 185 hp. It was done mainly for insurance purposes, not because they were worried about showing up Ford (same reason that the first 240SX was limited to 108mph).

They did,
the new Mustang SVT is a supercharged model. 300hp, 300ftlbs of torque. Fully independant rear suspension, 17 in rims. etc.

Stocker

300hp from a supercharged V8? I know it's only a 4.6l, but the Z28s (5.7l)were making well over 300hp during their last few years of production. Ford is lucky that the Camaros are going away, a 300HP supercharged V8 doesn't impress me that much.... Now the Lightning, now that's something! They should drop that engine into the mustang. Is that the cobra r's configuration?

i'm glad I'm not the only thinking 300hp sounded a bit low.

I'd be happy with either car, but I'd rather have the ZO6. z06 = 405 hp, normally aspirated... yummmy :boink:

Sure, I guess so. I was just quoting from my head off a tv show I saw.

Do you think GM is dropping the Camero for good? I doub't it not in this day of the "ghost of auto-past"...like the T-bird, Bettle, Impala, Malibu etc. The Camero or atleast the Z28 name will return in the near future for another money grab! GM is famous for it!

I did hear the Camaro, FireBird, Trans-Am will be back in 3 years...

uh oh,

soooo... as long as i dont spray off the line and refrain from SLAM SLAM SLAMing my stick into gears i should be fine, right?


so much for building my motor for a 125 shot, POS tranny. :(

how bout one reason its only a 170hp is because they are runnin 4 psi on stock bottom end. cause if you go any higher than 6 psi you need better fuel management and that would cost more money. also to put some dish pistons and big rods to hold more boost would also cost more money jacking up the price even more. i could care less aobut the calloway mp3 because its coming with the t-25 turbo which is a crappy turbo that they put on the second gen dsm. might as well hook up a hair dryer. i'm gonna go with the tri point turbo kit and for the same amonut of money as the price increase in the calloway version i'll get a better turbo, a fmic, and get more hp and TQ at same boost levels.