need new brakes, how to upgrade setup?
 

i was told at my last state inspection that i need new pads, they have 10-15% life left. i wanted to upgrade them here is my first question. whats the minimum i can upgrade and still stay in a relatively amateur class if i decide to try an autocross? its been hanging over my shoulder for some time and now that the warranty is out i want to give it a n00by shot. ive talked to several people and they tell me that my short shifter already puts me in a class above stock. i was thinking of Ken's budget big brake kit at protege garage, but im afraid it'll put me with more experienced drivers. but how about his front upgrade kit w/ EBC rotors, EBC pads, ss brake lines?

also 2nd part of this question, i literally only have a hammer and a screwdriver to my name...is this something i can do myself? i looked at the work manual on protege5.ugly.net and i can see its a lot of steps, and im prone to making mistakes.:crook:

With just a hammer and screwdriver, nope. Changing pads is cake, though, you literally need just to remove a single 14mm (or is it 12? nah I'm pretty sure it's 14) bolt and the caliper hinges open. old pads out, new pads in, find the springs that shot out and landed somewhere in the garage, etc. The only other thing you gotta do is compress the caliper piston, for which you need a caliper spreader (proper tool) or a very large c-clamp and the old pad (it works.. ). Pull the cap on the brake fluid reservoir when you are attempting to compress the piston.

edit: wait no.. something is missing there.. you need a 'brake caliper' socket, it's kinda a star bit like a torx. I think it is all you need to hinge the caliper open. Any auto parts store like an Advance Auto, Pep Boys, Auto Zone, etc. should have it.

The rear brakes are another story though. to retract the piston you have to remove a 12mm nut on the back of the caliper and have a metric allen wrench set handy, I can't remember the specific size (5mm?), you use the allen wrench to retract the piston instead of the c-lamp or piston retracting tool.

As for upgrading the pads putting you into a different class, I really doubt it since you said you're already bumped up a class by having a short shifter. I never autocrossed in anything other than Street Modified class so I don't know about all these restrictions and such :P

Changing out the pads is a piece of cake as Kansei said, but the rotors a little more difficult since you have to take off the whole caliper in order to remove the rotor. You don't need to disconnect the brake lines all the way or anything, but you will need some more tools to disassemble it all. As for the pads, the front are super easy (I don't remember needing the torx Kansei...) as you remove one bolt that allows you to slide the caliper open, swap the pads, and I used a C-clamp to compress the piston. The rear are just as easy, but instead of using a C-clamp for the piston, you'll need an allen wrench as Kansei mentioned.

So if you're doing just the pads you can do it no problem. If you plan on putting on new rotors, you'll need just a little more equipment to do it but it's still not hard. It's really just a couple extra bolts and it all comes off pretty nicely.

I needed that brake caliper bolt tool set for something, that's all I remember right now. I'll go feel up my calipers after work today :P

just got front pads and rotors today! wow quick for free shipping. yay to protege garage. anyway, upon initial inspection i found the left rotor had couple of scratches on the inside. check these huge pics out. they arent too deep, you can barely feel them with your fingers, it looks as though someone's pocket knife scratched it or something. my question is it still good or should i return for an exchange?:uhh:

https://www.mazda3club.com/attachmen...1&d=1187057221

https://www.mazda3club.com/attachmen...1&d=1187057221

https://www.mazda3club.com/attachmen...1&d=1187057200

I got a set of hawk pads from protegegarage that were all scuffed up as well, although still usable

ftl

not too concerned about looks, just premature brake life, dirt/performance issues. if its still good than i dont mind putting 'em on. i just got done reading all the "WARNING: YOU WILL DIE IF YOU SCREW UP YOUR BRAKES" mumbo jumbo on the packaging and just wanted to play it safe.

brake lines came in, i think im gonna put install these on saturday. if you dont hear from me after saturday i've probably crashed and died and made this world a better place by having 1 less idiot in it. im gonna get some brake fluid and some silicone grease. should i pick anything else up? if i remove the existing brake line, is brake fluid going to be spilling all over? thanks again.
-meGrimlock

Yeah, discs are okay. Good luck and report back on the improvement in performance!

Another trick to get the pistons to retract (if you have reasonable grip strength) is to open the bleed screw and then push the psiton back into the caliper using the old pad. This also gets some of the old brake fluid out of the caliper. Since you are changing out the lines it will be easy. Before you remove the lines it helps to get as much of the fluid out of the reservoir as you can.

Oh, you will need a set of flare nut wrenches to change those brake lines. I tried with a normal open-end wrench and almost bunged up the first one. I got mine from Sears (my favorite tool place). If you aren't putting the new lines on immediately you can put some small plastic caps (available at any auto parts store) over the hard brake lines to keep them from leaking.

Also, it wasn't mentioned and you might know this, but take care not to get any grease etc on either the pads or discs. Use some brake cleaner on the discs just to make sure they are clean.

A set of speed bleeders is a great investment, too. They make bleeding the brakes alone a snap. I can't believe that I used to bleed my brakes without them!

http://www.crossoverauto.com/mp3-7.htm

http://www.raceshopper.com/images/speed_bleeder2.gif

a power bleeder makes it much easier than with speed bleeders.. and no chance at all of them leaking (it does happen for some people)

i tried lookin up flare nut wrenches but couldnt tell the difference between that and a wrench?

i thought it was ok to grease the back of the pad?

also, i was planning on doing this saturday and didnt think of a speed bleeder. i dont think i'll have time to pick one up, is it that much of a pain to bleed the brakes without one?

thanks again for all your comments
-meGrimlock

i did this upgrade (w/ help) - so if i can do it, anyone can ;)

that works great until the pressure blows the seal between the reservoir (sp?) and the master cylinder....

If you pump it up to like 90psi, well yeah.

If you follow the instructions (pressurizing it to less than stock pressure), no

Here you go:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...sName=Wrenches

Basically a flare nut wrench is a closed end wrench with a small section removed to allow you to slip it over the pipe. It gives the maximum grip on the nut so you don't round it off.

whatever you do order the flare nut wrenches before you need them so that you aren't stuck buying ones from advance auto or INSERT_CRAP_STORE_HERE.

mine friggin bend!

folks have done it at 10.

If crap broke at 10psi, it wasn't the fault of the power bleeder. There was obviously something up with the system as it were.

well i installed the rear pads today. took forever cuz the wheel had seized up on the rotor. good thing my landlord is a gearhead, he's got a restored & tuned up Chevelle SS in the garage. he had everything under the sun to make the job go smoother.

i tell ya, those bolts were on there good! i started around 9:30am, took me forever to do the passenger rear. when that was done, took me about 20 minutes to do the other side and was finished by 1pm. didnt need to reuse the shims, the EBC pads came with them preinstalled.

he also recommended 2 things; dont replace the brake lines and to sand the rotors a bit. he said unless the lines are cracked, they should not be replaced because bleeding would take a while (esp. without those speed bleeders) and me bein a n00b and get air in the lines it would be one big headache. the sanding of the rotors was for better bedding of the new pads. he said there was a glaze on the surface of the rotors and should be lightly sanded to a slight haze. the alternative would be to turn (resurface) them. good to know.

no noticable different during this break-in period. tomorrow i will do the fronts. he told me i can expect a different feel in the brake pedal. should i use the parking brake at all during this brake in period? ive put it in gear so far. thanks for all your help. anything you can suggest if the front wheels are seized too? i had some anti-seize compound a while back but i cant find it now. i guess i should get another tube.

tip: pour the hottest water you can find all over the region where the wheel contacts the rotor.

other tip: use anti-seize but be very careful not to get it on the wheel studs. use sparingly

It really depends on the condition of the O rings that seal that 'tank'. If those are starting to go, added pressure will be trouble.

And what's wrong with anti sieze on the wheel studs? Plenty of autocrossers (constanty changing tires) use anti sieze on the wheel studs to prevent bungling the threads. When torqued properly, they're not coming off.

My wheels are off every couple weeks and I've never actually had a lug nut stick I guess. If you are someone who actually does torque them the proper amount, then again after driving ~75km, etc --then you should be fine

The one time I did let the anti seize get all over (I was actually applying it between the wheel hub and rotor so that my rotors would stop getting seized on), I did check the torque after driving for a day and had to tighten some of the lug nuts again. Then that weekend I drove back to CT and had to pull over after about 6 hours of driving because more had come loose. Maybe it was the type of anti-seize I used or the amount that got all over, I dunno

I understand why your landlord told you what he did about the brake lines, HOWEVER, waiting until your lines are cracked is asking for trouble. Besides the reason for installing braided stainless lines is that they expand less under pressure thus giving you more braking power. It really doesn't take that long to bleed the brakes on these cars (I have installed braided lines on two Proteges).

As for anti-seize, you definitely don't want to get it on anything like pads/rotors, but otherwise I recommend using it on any threaded fastener. Makes life easier when you have to take it apart again. In my line of work you learn early on to use the stuff as much as possible. One thing to note, most torque values are given for dry fasteners. If using lubricant on the threads it takes less torque to acheive the same amount of force. There are tables for this sort of thing, I don't have access to any right now but I am sure you can Goggle it or something.

skipped the fronts for now...there is something i need to tend to in the meanwhile. the pads still have some life to 'em.

the lines i guess will wait for a rainy day.

i noticed the rear rotors are starting to groove a bit? before the 'glaze' was even around the rotor, now it seems like the glaze is only concentrated in one area. i wish i could take some pics but like i said, there is something more serious going on right now. thanks again everybody. i'll keep you all updated.

finished the fronts! sorry no pics. at this point i just wanted them done, and maybe survive the 1st ride. all the how-tos and service manuals were very helpful and kudos to the writers and the mazda community.

1 question though, it sounds as if the passenger front is rattling. i dunno if the thin metal guide plates are causing the problem...i did not grease them with brake grease as the manual said. it seemed fine when i skipped that part in the rear pads. by the looks of the new rotor, the plates might be scratching them....again sorry for lack of pics. its getting dark, im sweaty, the brakes are burning hot and im hungry.

good news is the car stops & rides fine except for that slight rattle sound. it occurs at speeds up to 35 mph (i have not driven any faster yet) even when im not braking. any clues might be helpful. or next weekend i might just pull it apart and put some of that grease on the guide plates. other than that the new rotors look awesome. off to clean up and eat something, thanks again for all the help.