Brake Upgrades for 2000 ES??
 

Are there any good brake upgrades for the 2000 ES?

I have the disc up front and the Drums in the rear.

Anyplace online to order cross drilled rotors or things along that line that fit the 2000 protege??

imagine they look cool as hell and serve a purpose,
I love mine
Bruce
http://protosportracing.tripod.com/i...otors/7_fb.JPG

Thanks to Bruce for pointing out http://www.precisionbrakescompany.com/, I found out they will produce brake upgrades for almost any vehicle. I contacted them and found out they were already working on a 12.19" two piece rotor upgrade with relocation brackets for the stock calipers for biknman from this forum. After talking with Darryl about options for the 3rd gen Proteges, I decided on their "A" combination package ($850). It includes 13" DBA Long Life Gold curved vane cross drilled and slotted rotors, Wilwood billet dynalite calipers & Polymatrix pads, stainless steel hoses, and custom caliper mounting brackets. The package requires 17" wheels, but was the best value IMHO because the DBA rotor cost was lower because they could be made from universal blanks, as opposed to custom Wilwood aluminum hats being required for the two piece rotors. Both Matt (sales) and Darryl (technical) were very helpful and responded to email and phone calls VERY promptly. Nice find Bruce!:D

Eric F
 

:) So quick to judge or criticize, hmm.:)




;) To each his own, my friend! ;)

David, was that to me or Jesse? This is one of few times I'd have to say Jesse didn't criticize brake upgrades.
Jesse, yes I do plan on running in some Solo II autocrosses this year. Unfortunately, I'll be out of town during my local training/orientation weekend, but I'm still planning on running in as many as I can make it to. Don't worry, I'll be upgrading the tires and wheels as well, to insure I can take advantage of the brake upgrade. If you caught the price for the full upgrade I'm going with, that's a big part of the reason for going all out. It seemed to be the best value to me. Most other full kits that I've seen including larger rotor, better caliper, brackets & stainless lines, etc. run well over $1000.

Since you’re just asking, yes. I've raced in two Solo IIs with the car so far and I have another one tomorrow. And I'm pre-registered for two more next moth and a NASA road race in May. This is my first experience with car racing but not my first with high-speed competition. I've raced off-road stuff in my truck, I raced 600cc sport bikes in Germany, and I raced motor-cross off and on for years. Also I've raced pedal bikes for 27 years to include a Professional license to race BMX and Downhill Mountain Bikes. I also own a 02 Eclipse 200hp stock, which this summer will be outfitted with a twin turbo setup for the 1/4-mile track hopefully. Plus I was in the Army and was continually being thrown from perfectly good aircraft at very high altitudes with very low openings and all kinds of explosive attached to my body.
So yes I race and a lot more than just my car. But know a days it for fun the competitiveness was worn out of me years ago.

http://communities.msn.com/DaveandNo...to&PhotoID=166
Click here for a pic of me jumping the 20ft doubles at Plattekill Ski Resort, NY

PseudoRealityX SORRY BRO oops!
 

Sorry bro still trying to get the solider out of me, always ready to fight at the drop of a pin. Blame it on Uncle Sam he trained me to be that way and old habits are hard to break. I stand on my integrity, if I say, "I'm racing" I'm racing, if I say, "I'm showing my car" I'm showing my car. I'll get down off the soapbox now and chill.
Thanks for keeping me in line, I definitely need it some times.

:mach: :eek: :)

Like you say, "its not your fault I'm an idiot"! hehe :)

Brakes chioces
 

Back to what this post was originally about; I have KVR pads and Stainless Steel lines with Mogul brake fluid. I barley have to tap the brake pedal and the wheels lock in a good way; total control and I have the pedal feel set real tight like I like it. In fact I was out screaming down some local back roads that are really twisty and hilly testing out the new wheels via Rishie thanks, when I came around a blind corner and there is a dam dump truck in the middle of the road so I tap the brakes they locked for just a mil-a-second enough to slow me down from lets say 45 mph to 10 mph in no time at all to avoid the impeding collision. On the edge baby! Once my Wilwood 12 ¼” rotors show up I'm hoping that the stopping distance will get even shorter.
ZOOM-ZOOM!

So you are saying Pads and Brake lines will make a difference.

How much better then stock do you say they are?

Pads and brake lines will make a big difference if you pick the pads correctly. That's definitely the place to start with brake upgrades.
Biknman, as I mentioned before, when I contacted Precision Brakes Co. they told me they were working on your brake kit. I was under the impression from them you were going with Wilwood 12.19" two piece rotors and brackets to relocate the stock calipers. Have you changed that with them?

Eric F ?
 

That's what I'm waiting on: Wilwood 12.19" two piece rotors and powder coated brackets to relocate the stock calipers. I couldn’t justify the extra $800.00 for the Wilwood four piston calipers. Plus now if I want to run my 14" rims with Khumo Victoracers its easy to convert back to the stock rotor size for SCCA racing?

Extra $800? I went with the 13" DBA one piece rotors, Wilwood billet dynalite calipers with polymatrix "D" pads, Caliper mounting brackets, and stainless steel brake lines for $850. Darryl told me your Wilwood rotors and brackets were $480, is that right? The way Darryl explained it, the Wilwood rotors are more expensive than the DBA rotors because Wilwood doesn't make an aluminum hat that fits our application. They have to have Wilwood custom make a hat for our 55mm center bore, where DBA makes blanks that can be drilled for the specific application. I'm just trying to clarify whether what Darryl told me was correct. It seems so, because I checked Wilwood's website, and they don't have any hats available to fit our hubs. :dunno:

Yes, I'm still thinking about it. It requires quite a few parts though, and I'm not sure I want to switch to the 5 lug hubs. Do you know where to get the 4 lug rear disc brake hubs?

Eric F,

Everything Precision told you is true. Those guys really know brakes.

I've considered the rear disc swap too. But wouldn't we need a new bigger capacity master cylinder? I might do the rear disc swap this winter with Wilwood calipers at all four corners. I'll wait to see how the Autox season goes first. As of right now I have more brakes than I'll ever need.

My only problems right now is a little more midrange power (hopefully a turbo will take care of that), freaking over steer (hopefully adjustable front strut mounts will fix with more neg. camber), and small amount of torque steer only problem in long right turns where you need power(LSD).

Hmm, sounds very interesting more balanced braking.

Edwin, I'm very capable with a wrench. I'm not sure the drum brake hub is the same as the disc brake hub though. I thought the drum brake hub was thinner than the disc version. Rishie brought up a wheel fitment issue in another thread due to the depth of the rear disc hubs. I'll check with Mazda Motorsports. If it will work, that will certainly help the swap along. I'd still need the spindles, which should be the same as the 2001 disc brake equipped spindles, parking brake cables, brake lines, calipers, and rotors.
Biknman, I was planning on a master cylinder upgrade anyway with the front Wilwood calipers. I'm not entirely happy with the stock pedal travel from the stock master cylinder anyway, so I would consider this a must on the 3rd gen Proteges.

OEM vs. BIG personal experience
 

Here my two cents based on experience: I've been doing diagnostic testing with my brakes as I upgrade and changes things. As of today: Upgrade from LX 9.?" rotors to ES 10.2" rotors stopping distance improved by 10-15 feet on OEM rubber size, with Victoracers 205s distance was even shorter. With ES 10.2" rotors Carbon Fiber KVR pads and Stainless Steel lines the front disc lock really, really easy you can really feel the pads biting into the rotors; braking distance even decreased more from the LX to ES swap and depending on rubber either street 185s or Racing 205s or the Toyo Proxies TS-1 205s the distance is better or worse. But it seems with the bigger rotors and carbon pads the bite into the rotors is much more pronounced I can lock and unlock the front disc at well and I can really feel it in the brake pedal.
For daily street driving I'll go with the big Wilwood rotors for the coolness factor mainly with my Subzero, and for AutoX I'll probably though on the OEM ES rotors on with some HAWK or EBS Reds, racing pads for really aggressive braking because the red pads ware out the rotors and themselves really fast if your using them all the time.
In down hill racing I use to use EBC green pads for training and course pre-runs then switch to the EBC reds for the race. My first time trying the EBC reds I used them for two days of pre-runs down the mountain and by race time on Sunday the pads where toast and there was noticeable ware in the rotors, and bicycle hydraulic disc brakes are a lot more sensitive to ware (tolerances are under 1mm) than with the automobile stuff. But the reds bite the rotors like no others and conditions don’t matter they eat mud and rain. In fact they would ware out twice as fast in muddy conditions than when dry with the same performance. Also with the greens to reds the reds would squeal like a bitch compared to the greens because they are eating the hell out of the rotors causing all kinds of stress (super high density vibration) and heat buildup on/in the brake components.
Hope this helps folks out with their brake.

Edwin comes through!!! Yes, the '99-'00 rear drum brake hubs will work for disc brakes. However, not with the US '01+ rear disc spindles. We need Jspec rear spindles from a 2WD Sport 20. Mazda actually makes four different rear spindles for the Sport 20. A 2 wheel drive version for both drum and disc brakes, and a 4 wheel drive version for both drum and disc brakes. The backing plates, parking brake cables, brake lines, calipers, pads, etc. are all the same as the US '01+ models. The 4 lug rotors are available from Mazda Motorsport. Now I need to decide whether to use the stock rotors, or get larger rear rotors and caliper relocation brakets from Precision Brakes? Now I know I'm going to need a larger master cylinder. Anyone know if we can use one from a 626 or Millenia? Hmm, add some Bridgestone Potenza S03 tires and 60 to 0 in less than 100 ft?

Eric F

Where or how are you going to obtain the J-Spec Sport 20 spindles? I'm interested to if its not going to cost an arm and a leg. If you get a rear brake kit from Precision Brakes let them go ahead and engineer/design a proper master cylinder for ya!

You know I was looking though the SCCA solo II bible and any other brakes other than stock size would though you out of STS class, right?

60 - 0 in less then 100 ft. would be insane in the protege!

I'd love that type of braking and who wouldnt ?

Could save your life.:eek:

Biknman, I ordered the spindles from Mazda Motorsports ($51.50ea).

Eric F spindles hmm?
 

Thanks,
Is that team price? Looks like I need to hit the salvage yards for OEM calipers, E-brake cable, and brake lines, spindles from MM and big rotors and master cylinder from Precision. Maybe I'll just get all new OEM parts from MM under the team deal. I forgot all about the STX class. Again thanks for the useful info.

No problem. Mazda Motorsports sells non stock parts to anyone for the same price. Team support membership gets you stock US parts for the vehicle you have registered for discounted prices. Turns out it's not going to be easy to locate the stock '01+ rear calipers used. MazdaMart is the only place that had them, and doesn't want to seperate the full set (front and rear from the spindle out). I think Brian said they were ~$300 new, which is more than the Wilwood billet dynalites.

Seem like you are going through alot of trouble just for the brakes?? :confused: :confused:

Eric F
 

I'm waiting for my Team Membership from MM any day now. As for the rear disc brake conversion looks like a project for next winter. I think once the Mazdaspeed bumper and skirts come in and I get them on the car painted along with hopefully the CF Hood. I'm done with mods to the car till this winter. I'm still working on getting the parts to turbo charge the car but probably will not be complete till this fall. Plus I want to see how AutoX goes this season as I'm thinking about getting a deal on a MR2 or Miata for AutoXing only for next year. The deal is via two friends who are looking at something new this summer and will be unloaded their little sportsters cheap.
Good luck with the rear disc conversion!

A lot of trouble? Your in the wrong place, this is a car enthusiast Forum. This ain't trouble, it's fun. ;)

Brian finally gave me a support number becuase I was calling and ordering so much. I think he got tired of taking my information down over and over again. I'll be official this year anyway, but it's nice to get a head start. I got the rear disc spindles from them yesterday. I talked to Darryl at Precision Brakes Co. about upgrading the rear rotors and calipers also. He's looking for upgraded calipers that would include a parking brake for me, as well as larger DBA rotors with the same offset as the stock rear rotors. I want an awesome handling and braking street car first, then I'll look at the engine after the Callaway turbo system parts become available later this year.

Re: Brake Upgrades for 2000 ES??
 

i thought all ES's had 4 wheel discs, or did this just start in the 01 model?

Re: Re: Brake Upgrades for 2000 ES??
 

yup, you got it :)

99-00 ES has drum rears :(

All ES, LX 2.0L, and MP3's had both front and rear disc brakes starting in '01. For '99-'00, all US Proteges were stuck with rear drum brakes for some reason, even though they had rear discs in other markets.

Edwin, I'll have to get them when I get home. You can call Mazda Motorsports and get them, if so, why not get the part numbers for the DX and LX owners to upgrade the front brakes to ES specs also?

Front Parts needed:
258mm front rotors
correct mounting offset ES mounting brackets, calipers, and pads
larger ES brake backing plate (dust cover)

Rear parts needed:
JDM 2 wheel drive disc spindles (-$51.50)
use stock drum brake hubs & integral bearings
'01+ disc brake backing plate (dust cover)
JDM 4lug rotors (B26Y-26-251 -$32.85)
'01+ mounting bracket, caliper, and pads
'01+ hydraulic brake lines
'01+ left and right parking brake cables

What do you estimate the braking distance will be after these upgrades?

60-0 , 100-0 , etc

Besides better than it is now, I have no idea.

Biknman, have you gotten your upgrade kit from Precision brakes yet? I'm still waiting for mine. I still haven't located anywhere other than MAZMART that has the stock rear calipers. Anyone else? I'm wondering what the Protomotive/AWR WC Proteges are using in their brake systems? I think they are running Wilwood 4 wheel disc setups with the 4x100mm hubs also. I wonder what they are using for a master cylinder and proportioning valve? Joe or Jim, care to provide any information?

stupid question.......maybe?
 

o.k guys sorry if this is a stupid q..but my knowledge of brakes is very limited :beer:

if i upgrade my front rotors to bigger dba's...can i use my stock front discs to swap the drums in the back??


o.k. you can all laugh at me now:p

OK, I'm done laughing. j/k Unfortunately, no you can't swap your front brakes to the rear. To convert your rear drums to discs, the first thing you need is new spindles for disc brakes. The front spindles are different. Your current hubs will work on the rear disc spindles. You would then need rear rotors, calipers, brake lines, parking brake cables, dust shields, etc. The parts are available from Mazda Motorsports, and are fairly affordable except for the rear calipers. Those run about $344 ea.

I've finally gotten my complete front brake upgrade from Precision Brakes Co. The kit consists of DBA long life gold 13" rotors, Wilwood billet dynalite calipers and polymatrix D compound pads, stainless steel braided teflon brake lines, and brackets to mount the calipers. It took PB two months to finally get me the kit, and when it arrived and I did the test fit, it didn't! the rotors were supposed to be made from blanks, so I expected them to be hub centric and drilled with a 4 x 100mm lug pattern. The lug pattern was right, but the hole in the rotor for the hubs was larger than our 55mm hubs. Also, the bracket they fabricated to mount the Wilwood calipers (the only part that they had to fabricate, BTW) provided slightly too much offset away from the hub. This caused the brake pads to extend about 1/8" out past the rotor. After complaining/arguing with them for a while they agreed to fix it. Almost a month later I received replacement brackets and aluminum centering rings for the rotors. This time everything does indeed fit. I'll do the install this weekend and take some pics. I'd have to give a very cautious recommendation to Precision Brakes. I'm happy with the finished product, but the time delays and numerous phone calls and emails that weren't returned would make me rate their customer service extremely low. especially since they don't have an 800 #.
The search for stock rear calipers for the rear disc conversion goes on...