Synthetic Oil
 

At the risk of being seriously slammed by you guys ...I have a question.

Someone once told me a few years back that using Slick 50 or other Pure Syntheitc oils too early in an engines life will cause problems with piston rings "seating"

So the question is ...should I not use synthetic oil until a certain amount of miles?? I drive 400 - 600 miles weekly (thank God they are reimbursed). So getting miles on are not a problem...I just want the best life from the car

Before you guys ask...the extra cost of the oil is not a factor.

search!

Its a debate, and you won't get a straight answer... there isn't one. I will tell you that I put Synthetic in my car at 1400, and the only thing that happened to me was that my car ran a hell of a lot smoother, and my gas mileage jumped from an average 26 mpg, to an average 30 mpg. :D

My dealer says don't do it until 10,000 miles. I used to be a mechanic and everybody said the same thing. Let it break in a little before you change over. The mileage at which you do that would depend on how hard you drove it.

As for Slick 50, I've heard many conflicting things. All the PTFE engine treatments should require some clearance before you put it in. This is because they actually are supposed to put a film on components. I've read that the teflon doesn't make it past the oil filter, but I find that hard to believe since I've torn down engines that have had it put in and they are a major bitch to get cleaned up. The PTFE turns into a goo when you hot tank the block and it's a serious job to get out of engine passages. It must be getting past the filter in order to leave enough on to do that.

PTFE does get past the filter,but being that it is a solid,it also gets caught in the filter,causing possible premature failure of the filter which can cause major engine damage....not a good idea to put in slick 50,or any other PTFE lube, IMHO

The only mechanic I've ever trusted told me it was fine to switch to synthetic at any point, just don't switch back and fourth. He says any mechanic that tells you you need to wait is living in the 70's, when it was necessary.

He also brought up the fact that Mobil 1 synthetic comes from the factory in many new cars, which was enough to convince me.

It is an ongoing debate, however. If you want to be sure, just wait.

Oh, and any mecahnic will tell you to avoid Slick-50.

i think that its an old 'wives tale' that one should not use synthetics right away in a new engine. possibly due to those in the industry that either dont believe in them or whatever.

the fact is that, there is NO proof that engines 'need' regular petrol oil for 'break-in'. many manufacturers use synthetics from day one. thats just my opinion though.

In this whole argument, which if you do a search on Google or Yahoo or something, you will find millions of posts in thousands of forums concerning when to put synthetic...

all I have heard are theories concerning what breaking in with synthetic can do to your engine... I have not read one piece of anecdotal evidence where someone even claims to have ruined their engine this way.

I couldn't think of any reason that you would need regular oil for break-in. I believe that the C5 vettes come from the factory with Mobil1 and I'm sure others come with synthetic stock. I have a friend who put in syn. and he said his focus runs so much smoother now.

Slick 50 is not an option....Mobile 1 is my choice....

Thanks for all your input...this forum is awesome;) :D

Please do not confuse Slick 50 and other oil additives with synthetic oil. The additives like Slick 50 and Prolong are akin to snake oil and are being investigated by the government. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/9707/slick.htm Synthetic oil has been around for 30+ years and has a proven track record.

An engine will also break in just fine with synthetic oil. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and also Corvettes come from the fatory filled with synthetics. I usually recommend people wait until the first oil change to switch over. It is another old wive's tale that once you switch, you can't go back. You can switch between conventional oils and synthetic oils as often as you wish, although I can't understand why you would want to give up the benefits synthetics can provide.

i used to use Mobil 1 on my old 99' Si that revved to 8Krpms, and I never had one prob in the 40K miles that I put on the motor in 2 & 1/2 years that I owned the car. and that was revving it to 8Krpms daily.

i now use Exxon/Esso 5w-50 and I love it. its got a viscosity index of 168 and a flash point of around 430-440 degrees F. And its only $3.20/qt compared to Mobil 1 at $5.00/qt (at Autozone). Unfortunately, Autozone, in their infinite wisdom and knowledge has quit carrying Exxon Superflow synthetic and thus I'm out of oil.

I have considered Neo, which is what Mazdaspeed uses, as does also Jun Auto Mechanic. I also looked at Redline but they did not look nearly as good as Amsoil.

I will be using Amsoil's 0w-30 oil as it has a index of of like 190 something! and will go 35K miles before a change! i advise all of you to check them out for sure!

you guys are awesome sources of knowledge...thanks

Okay.. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to auto mechanics and different types of oils. After reading all of these posts on synthetic oil, I'm very interested in potentially switching over once I get my new Protege 02 in a few weeks. I'll do it on the first oil change.

Where do I go to have this done? I'm in Toronto-Canada... Will the dealership provide this kind of service? Also, what synthetic oil would you recommend here in Canada? Not sure if Mobil 1 is available here or not.

Lastly, how does using synethic oil alter the recommended maintenance checks and time between each check? ie: if I'm not mistaken, with regular oil you should do an oil change every 5,000km or so.

Any advice would be great...

PJStyles

MY dealership here in Calgary said that they would put the synth in, but they did not sell it. I would have to buy it and then bring it in to them. You should check with your dealership. I'm sure the jiffy lubes, etc. of the world would do it for you as well...they may even offer the products. Come to think of it, my g/f gets her car's oil changed at Wal-Mart and I believe they offer synth as well.

Mobil 1 is available in Canada...check Can-Tire or an auto store.

Manual states oil changes at 7500 km, but I do it at 5000 km. I believe synth is good for something like 10 000 km, but somebody else will have to post that for sure...I can't recall as I haven't used it before.

Okay great... I'll definitely go with synthetic.. but now I'm reading all this stuff that Mobil has changed the blends of their Mobil 1 synthetic and that it's not a TRUE synthetic but more like Castrol's Syntec?

Any Canadians here have any advice on which synthetic oil to use now?

PJStyles

Yeah, I wanna know more about this too....

as for oil changes, since my dealership requires 8000 km changes, I just change my oil every 8000 kms..... (that's with synthetic oil in there)..... I bought 4 quarts of Mobil 1, gave it to Mazda to use at my service and yeah, I'm full of synthetics now ;)

Mobil lost the lawsuit against Castrol challenging Castrol's claim that they were fully synthetic. Since then, Mobil has reformulated and is taking advantage of higher profit margins. If you can't beat them, join em'.

There are two full synthetics that I am aware of. Amsoil and Redline. There may be others, but I don't know for sure. You can get both Amsoil and Redline in Canada, but they can be pretty expensive depending on where you live. You're best bet, if you're close to the border, would be to have a friend in the states that it can be shipped to or find a local shop that has it on sale.

I'm not sure of the conversions right now, but synthetic oil can be used longer than conventional oils. The actual interval depends on you're driving conditions. Short trips in cold weather are the worst, and the oil would need to be changed more frequently. Extended highway trips are the best and offer the longest possible interval. Just ball park numbers, I wouldn't go past 10,000 km in mixed driving conditions without support from an oil analysis to check how the oil is holding up. I believe 10,000km is about 7500 miles and this is what I based the number on.

Is it true what I'm hearing from various people that if you start using synthetic oil you void the manufacturer's warranty on your vehicle?

PJStyles

I believe that as long as the oil meets or exceeds the SAE standards that are outlined in the manual, then any oil will work. Since most synthetics at least meet the SAE standard I would think that the majority of them would not void the warranty.

Synthetic oil will not void your warranty as it meets or exceeds the SAE and API requirements. Below is an excerpt from the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975:

Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: “(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if – (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.” (42 U.S.C. 2302 (C))
---------------------------------
What this means is that manufactures cannot require you to use only their fluids. The lubricants are recommended according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether it’s conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade, 5W-30 for example, and the current API SL and ILSAC GF-3 North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage.

AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any retailers in Canada that carry Amsoil?

PJStyles

Is it though? Their website is pretty vague, though I will admit I simply don't know that much about RP.

Mobil 1 states that it is a fully synthetic oil on the bottle. I think the only reason that you would not use synthetic right away is because when you break in your car there is no need for it and why spend the extra cash. I would also recommend doing your own oil changes if your going to use synthetic. For me to get a synthetic change runs me 42.00 ( us) For me to do it myself it is like 16.00 plus 20 min.

Mobil meets the legal defintion of a full synthetic that was determined as a result of the court battle bewteen them and Castrol. The question is what is this new oil REALLY. Does it meet the commonly accepted meaning of full synthetic or not. Are the laywers and marketing people playing games with us in order to maximize profits at our expense. Personally, if I'm paying for what I think is a true synthetic so I can have the best protection for my car, I WANT a true synthetic.

I agree with you that it is worth it by far to change your own oil. It costs less and just as important, you know the job was done right.

Thats just plan true. I got tears rolling down my face. 23- 30 are the best

that is some pretty funny stuff Edwin.....but....if that is what YOU go through to change YOUR oil.....get a woman to do it for you! lol

New Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
 

I also read that the New Mobil 1 was reformulated and is no longer a fully synthetic as normal people would define it but was a refined Grade III basestock(mineral or dino oil) which the court has allowed to be included within the definition of "synthetic" which is what Castrol Syntec was doing.

However, I decided to call Mobil at (800) 662-4525 and they confirmed that this is just rumor and that the new formula with the Supersyn still uses Grade IV and V basestock(fully synthetic).

Re: New Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
 

I called them too when I first heard this rumor, and they said the same thing. I talked to an Amsoil distributor a few weeks ago. Even he said Mobil 1 was still fully synthetic, although he wished he could say otherwise.

It seems this is just a rumor that's easy for people to believe.

well my local Wall-Mart still has old Mobil 1, the one that said 'Tri-synthetic' on it. Should I get that one or the new one?

my local wal-mart had the old 'tri-synthetic' in 5qt containers on sale for $17.88. I couldn't resist so I bought one. 2 days later when I drop by again they were all gone....

I say get the old ones if you can, because those are guaranteed to be grade IV basestocks :)

Re: Re: New Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
 

I'd be curious where he got that info from. When I queried tech services at Amsoil about it, the said they were still evaluating the new formula, whcih would take a while.

Re: Re: Re: New Mobil 1 with SuperSyn
 

It was on another message board, I forget where. From the technical lingo he was using and the length of his posts, you could tell he wasn't an imposter.

You know, I'm still not completely convinced either way. I'd be interested in hearing the results of the evaluation.

Mobil response
 

Here is a copy of the email response I received this morning from Mobil. (Group IV is the fully synthetic basestock):

Subj: Re: Mobil1 product Technical question
Date: 05/30/2002 9:33:02 AM Central Daylight Time
From: mobilproducts@ourdataworks.com (Mobil E-Store)
To: -----@aol.com



No, Mobil1 Supersyn is still a GroupIV basestock which is a PAO based
oil just like the Tri-Synthetic motor oil was.

-----@aol.com wrote:

> Just a simple question which is not mentioned on the website.
>
> Does the new Mobil 1 with Supersyn use Grade III basestock?
>
> Thank you in advance for your response.
>
> Ken







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Re: Mobil response
 

Here are some intertesting comments from Mobil's website:

------------------------
Q. What's the difference between a fully synthetic and a semi-synthetic motor oil?
A. All motor oils are made up of base oils and additives. In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids. Semi-synthetic oils (also called "blends") usually use a small percentage of non-conventional, high-performance fluids in combination with conventional oil.

Q. Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ a fully synthetic motor oil?
A. Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.
--------------------

Notice the "in general" comment in the first question and the mention of "high performance fluids" in BOTH questions. Those statements leave so much wiggle room they never really answered the questions.

Sure, Mobil 1 does use a PAO base stock as part of their oil, as the email confirms as well. They also say they use "high performance fluids" including PAO's. How much of the base stock is PAO's and how much is "high performance fluids?

Companies like Amsoil use PAO's and the neccesary additives, not other fluids, PAO's and additves.

I can't wait to see some results from some testing on the new formula. Actual numbers instead of speculation would be great as far as I'm considered. Even if it turned out the oil was of a higher quality than I would like from my standpoint, at least the guessing game would stop.