how much can a MP5 handle
 

how much can a MP5 handle if it is turboed psi wise with out blowing the engine and what I need to prevent from the engine blowing up.....help will be greatly appreicated

Thats a very open-ended question. I suggest you read "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell before you go any further. It appears as though you have very little knowledge of turbo systems and you don't want to try to boost a motor until you have all of the facts you need.

p.s. Engine strength isn't the limiting factor when it comes to turbocharging it's Engine Management (i.e. tuning) that determines these things. If you're serious about boosting your motor you should pick up an AEM EMS that I'm doing the GB on the vendor section.

Re: how much can a MP5 handle
 

It all depends on engine management + tuning!

I have seen turbo'd mp3's (same engine as p5's) with the MPI Tuner running 12-14 PSI!

Some people with high boost kits are running like 16psi w/ Haltek EMS.

The AEM is still being tested...I belive the highest they have run is on a turbo p5 runnin like 4psi??

I have the mpi tuner runnin 6psi..and am plannin to up the boost in the next month!

Gonna Run 8psi daily and 10psi on track!

Chas:D

oh crud, here we go.....

As far as engine management is concerned: You get what you pay for.

While a $.99 McChicken sandwhich will keep you from dying of hunger a Hardee's $6 dollar burger will do it with ferver!

Same goes with the difference in tuning devices. One is cheap and only controls spark and fuel (bare minimum for tuning) The other is more expensive and will control almost every facet of tuning and driveability including, traction control, on-board dyno, hot-swappable mapping, datalogging etc...That's the way to go if you're serious about performance and tuning. If you just want to get by safely then the MPI may work wel for you.


"nuff said.

Uh..1st traction control is not something a racer wants..it causes the engine to bog down..When i was at the track..a Mustang GT MTX ran a 15.4..i told him to take off the traction control..he ran 14's!

MPI offers datalogging, boost control, extra injector & stock injector setup, full timing & fuel control.

I am not trying to start any war w/ aem..just trying to give the guy some ideas on what's going on OTHER THAN AEM!

Chas:D

if you actually read the dyno charts, the AEM unit was able to pull more wheel horsepower (175+) out of merely 4 psi with a smoother powerband than any other kit at 6 psi. Simply put, this is due to better tuning from a more advanced unit.

The MPI tuner is cheap. The AEM will not be as cheap. You will get what you pay for. Thats my personal and professional opinion.

Save your pennies and go with the AEM for some real power.

505zoom has dyno'd his mazdaspeed at 10psi w/ out the mpi tuner..and he dyno'd at
http://www.msprotege.com/members/505...no%20sheet.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...hlight=505zoom

Chas

wow, those dyno charts look like crap compared to the AEM dyno's running base maps. That probably didn't help your case any.

MPNick doesn't provide a good clean map for him to start with?? wow, if I were to purchase something like that I'd want to know it would at least be pre-tuned somewhat where I could make my own changes/improvements/adjustments on my own time.

Uh..not piggy/standalone..will come pretuned..to be perfect..you will have to tune any ems you get...Even perfnick told me that you will need to tune w/ his ems!

Chas
:p

I was speaking of BASE MAPS....not advanced tuning after the fact....the pre-loaded software to make the vehicle run "factory new".

Do I really need to post the AEM dyno to show you the difference in this mpi map and the AEM BASE map???

p.s. The AEM at 3.5psi made 171whp 171lb/ft...the mpi car only made 200whp?!?! 6.5 psi more on the AEM is going to KILL those power numbers and look at the curves!! There is no area under them....it's all just a peak number. He's only hitting about 175whp during full acceleration.

had to do it.
 

Pay special attention to the power curves....notice how flat they are?? Also notice that there is no spiking of anykind to create false power numbers. Remember, peak horsepower is nothing. It's what you constantly pull out that determines how fast you go.

Very important, probably most important for a boosted car is the A/F ratios.....notice how the ratio starts off lean while the motor is not in boost. As boost builds it slowly starts richening up as an added precaution against detonation. The MPi dyno just dumps fuel....very bad.

Please remember that Roni has alot of work done!

She has a custom tubular manifold..and T3 turbo(i think)!

The 505zoom only has a fmic and he is runnin a t25!

Chas:D

bah, 200whp from a turbo kit is 200whp from a turbo....there are 1.8L cars making 180hp now....

just give it another week and you'll have some more proof of what good tuning can do. I'll be sure to post you the MSP dyno's with AEM....they are only a T25 with 5psi.

someday we will get the microtech units out, damm aussie's
-chris @ microtech usa

Chris...what do you think about the two charts?? Which car would you rather drive?

That AEM dyno is smooth as silk. They have my vote.

Chas, please explain to me using your infinite wisdom of turbo-technology how here SPOOL manifold in any way affected the power curve smoothness and the AF ratios.

FWIW, the SPOOL manifold she has on her car is a piece....it's got cracks all over it and is a horrible design. Even with it on their though the car still drives amazingly well I'd put more than a few dollars on Roni's car over that 200whp msp.

Infinite wisdom..uh...:rolleyes:

I thought Roni already got the Wagner Manifold already on (confused)

So think about it this way..

The mazdaspeed exhuast manifold is like one of those dinky straws you get when you purchase a mc donalds drink..

and the Spool/Wagner manifold as a garden hose.

It should be obvious that the garden hose will flow more water than the dinky straw.

The better the exhust..the more power you will get..faster the exhuast gasses leave the compression chamber the more horsepower you will gain..

well exhuast affects allot..if you have ever read maximum boost by corky bell..you would know that exhuast plays a major part when building high horsepower engines.

chas:D

Forgot to mention that with the larger exhuast manifold..you will be able to hit boost faster..which in turn builds more hp/tg down low.

Lastly don't forget..Roni has a T3...and the Mazdaspeed has T25..

Chas

I just Realized that the dyno i posted above..is not w/ the mpi tuner..it's w/ the stock ecu at 10psi!

Oops..my bad!

Chas

You need to read up more about turbo systems and dyno charts. The design of a manifold has NOTHING to do with the smoothness of the power curve or AF ratios on a dyno...it may increase overall power, but not by what you think.

p.s. Oh yeah...NOW you say it doesn't have the mpi tuner after everyone ragged the crap out of it....uh huh.

Rod, I understand you like the AEM, and it is a great looking EMS, but isn't that a little harsh ?

Bigger really isn't always better in an exhaust manifold design. You'll want small and well designed tubing to allow the gasses to exit with sufficient velocity. If not, I forgot the term, but the exhaust can re-enter the combustion chamber, and that's not wanted.

Did that come off as harsh?? I didn't mean for it to. I guess I just got a little burnt that someone was using false logic to try to explain why "their" product was looking bad in comparison.

I wish more people got a chance to see that AEM in person. I've known about it for some time now and it blew me away when I saw it mapping in 3D, auto-mapping, data-logging.....you should've seen how it easy it is to swap in the larger injectors and tune it for them. It took less than 1 minute and the curve was perfect with a glass smooth idle. That just goes to show all of those people who say that a car with bigger injectors won't idle right.

Can we try to act mature..we are having a discussion here!

Chas:rolleyes:

does the picture mean I'm not mature? I thought it was quite funny.

Why is the "CAT" circled?

I am horrible with p-shop....I was trying to replace "CAT" with AEM...didn't work like I had hoped. I saw the picture and it somehow felt relevent.

Hi all ;-)
names ben. was going on?

What does traction control have to do with engine management?

Air has a density. The hotter air is, the more space it needs for the same amount of air particles. Cooler air, more density, more air in intake manifold. Manifold bolts to head. The design of the manifold specifies the amount of flowing air it can handle without making turbulences on its way into the head. the size of the ports in the head and their shape and design define the maximum flow of air and filling characteristics(now with fuel from the injectors in the last part of the manifold) of the comb. cham.

The less turbulences makes less friction (heat)(xept the ones on the last leg the engine needs for filling every "nook and cranny" of the chamber on the pistons intake downstroke) the more dense, cool air/fuel ratio you get compressed into the chamber = the bigger the bang. Simple really. TURBO means presurized air. pressurising air makes it hot. depress. makes it cold. 4 psi more boost, 200 degrees hotter air in your intake! here comes the intercooler to prevent predetonation and bringing the air temp back down to safe levels. bigger intercooler, more cooling but bigger area- different denisity results in false reading of dialed-in-stock air mass sensor scrwing up the air/fuel ratio. GET A A/F METER, dial Air sensor right-BECAUSE IT WILL SAVE your ENGINEs life! So intake design is VERY IMPORTANT !!! AND a HIGH ART.

Note that most Air Mass sensors farther incl. THE INTAKE SYSTEM include an air temp. sensor. So sucking hot air through OPEN FILTER from the area of the exaust (VERY high temp!) brings the density of the air down. Result: great sound, bad MPG and crappy performance. Re-route the air intake to a sealed hood scoop or put a big flexible tube that fits over the open filter to clean air. not behind radiator! Some put a hole in the firewall (use rubber all around!) and suck it from the interior. Always clean, cool air there and a built in smoke vacuum cleaner ;-))) OLD 4x4 trick for desert runs

Very correct, very important thing here. you WILL kill your engine sonner than later using BAND AID APPROCHES (quote) to tuning like messing with the extra injector/(is a cold start injector and usually injects unprecise fuel squirts into the main part of the manifold. good thing when engine is cold, because combustion temp. is also kept low till engine is ready to run right warmed up conditions. you will always get non input controlled maps till engine is warm on fuel injected cars!!!).bad thing if engine is warm: If your ECU Fuel MAPS (the exel tables that tell the injectors when to open and for how long (they can only stay open for one revolution cylce lenght. This is the DUTY CYLCE of the INJECTORS keep this at 70%!!- Need more fuel, get bigger injetors) at specific RPM, air temp, air mass velocity, boost (amount of air),e.t.c.) run into the situation that the injectors cant supply enought fuel for the right fuel/air ratio OR the ECU runs into the "injector-over-rev" fuel cut: you will unload you PISTONS at 7,000 RPM in an already lean A/F condition = COUNT TO 2 AND YOU HAVE INSTaNT and FINAL PISTON MELTDOWN

most import thing here: ever wonder wy aftermarket headers have funky tubing all over the place? because they are one lenght of pipe bent smoothly till they meet into one pipe for again, LESS TURBULENCE

Stock headers have different length passages to the point where they go into one pipe. this results in different back pressures to different cylinder head exaust ports, causing different piston unloading velocitys (density again) which results in vibrations at over 5000 and wierd feeling of a rope around the neck up and over there. more air in is great. more air more equaly out brings the WAY BIGGEST BANG FOR THE BUCK with a free flow catalysator period. add cams for flavor ;-)

Traction control has nothing to do with engine management, but it does have to do with drivability. You will see this if you reread what was said. The AEM tuner is a complete replacement for the stock ECU, meaning it must control everything that the stock did and more.

I reformulated my question: Stock ecu contols traction? how this? I thought ABS does this and just kicks in the rev limiter when a no traction situation is read?

good info.

Chas

ABS modulated traction control is NOT smart...Think of oit this way:

Your engine is making tons of torque...enough to spin the wheels over and "out of control". You want to apply the brakes to that? All that does is strain your axles. The problem is engine power. The AEM uses three features to control traction....timing retard, spark cut, and boost cut. Don't think that boost cut will cause more lag either. The AEM has two different modes of anti-lag, auto-x and rally-x.

Like I mentioned earlier the AEM is much deeper, wider and easier to use than I knew. The open house should've been required for anyone who ever wants to post "facts" about EMS. It was like going to school.

I guess I was wrong about the traction control not being related to EM. I wasn't aware that it was tied into the engine, all of the TC I've seen simply uses brake modulation to correct wheelspin and such. You learn something new everyday!:D

yeah, I thought the same thing but after having it explained it makes perfect sense....abs braking is the easier way of doing, but not the better way.