How different are the 2001+ 3rd gen variants suspension
 

Firstly, I must say that I'm not trying to prove the superiority of the chassis/suspension system of any particular 3rd gen 2001+ Protege. I'm merely here to find out a question I had about the different chassis/suspension setups on the Protege ES, Protege MP3 and the Protege 5. Anyways, when I bought the Protege 5, I was considering the purchase of an ES (because the interest on 2001's were lower) and the MP3, and asked the sales rep. how the suspension differs. The rep. told me that the Protege 5 differs from the ES in that it has many additional structural and suspension enhancements. I asked wasn't only the addition of the tower bar all that was different in the Protge 5 and he said no.
Car and Driver's Oct 2001 issue indicated in their Short Take Review "The wagon bodywork adds about 80 pounds, but along with extensive structural enhancements (thicker shock-tower metal, additional crossbars, and general beefing up) and additional sound-deadening materials, our test vehicle carried an extra 255 pounds' worth of paunch relative to that of our last Protegé ES test car".
So if CD is right, that makes the Proteges 5s chassis/suspension different from the ES. Assuming it is tweaked for better handling, the Protege 5 should handle better than an ES, given the wagon configuration assists in providing a stiffer structure with the addition of a D-pillar, and does not impede handling characteristics. Also, if a Protege 5 is outfitted with Tokico Shoks, Racing Beat Anti-Roll bars and Springs, and 17 inch Racing Harts from the MP3 does that mean it can outlhandle the MP3 in a slalom test, given its stiffer body structure and suspension upgrades over the ES which the MP3 shares its chassis and body component with? A summary:

Protege ES: Sport suspension
Protege 5: Sport suspension plus additional crossbars and structural enchancments
Protege MP3: Tuner suspension


Again, I'm trying to promote hate or other feelings, nor am I saying any variant is "better" than another. All Proteges are excellent cars IMO. I'm trying to firstly, validate these claims by sources and secondly, to let people understand these Proteges better. :blue:

The thicker sheet metal you refer to was between all '01+ Protege models (MP3, sedans, Protege 5's), and the '99-'00 Proteges. The MP3 and Protege 5 both come with the same strut tower bar, just painted different colors. The strut tower bar should help the car feel a bit tighter in front, and give quicker steering response. The thicker sheet metal doesn't really make a difference in handling, especially after adding the strut tower bar. The MP3's stiffer, shorter springs, larger stabilizer bars, and lower profile tires make a much larger difference in it's handling than there is between the '99-'00, '01+ sedams, or Protege 5's. The Protege 5 doesn't have a stiffer chassis than the sedan, it's the other way around actually. The Protege 5 would probably benefit from a rear strut tower bar, while the sedan doesn't need one. With the MP3 suspension components, all versions of the Protege would handle very close to the same. Very minor differences.

The reason the wagon would have more metal and crossmembers would be because it's a rolling box. The sedan benefits from the metal in the package tray as well as the c-pillars. The wagon dosen't have the package tray and the structural pillars are moved back to the d-pillars. Also, the rear of a sedan also helps with structural for the floor where as a wagon has a large door (that usually swings up also) and these all contribute to the required extra metal.
As for the front, it was probably just to tighten things up for the MP3 and the Pro5...if the sedans got it, it was just to cut costs by producing one size fits all parts (I work in the auto/frame/welding industry...it's always about $$)

FYI...Honda couldn't use the previous model Civic as a wagon body style because the floor pan wasn't designed for what a wagon requires structurally.

Again, all '01+ Proteges got the thicker chassis sheet metal around the front suspension mounts. Sedans and hatchbacks. The sedan does have an inherently stiffer chassis due to the additional bracing of the rear deck as you mentioned.

All 99+ Proteges other than the MP3 have the *exact same* suspension with the exception of the strut tower brace on the P5. The only difference is the relocated roll centers on the 01+ models. Some cars carry different springs than others, but the only difference is the length of the springs, not the stiffness. The different lengths only keep the ride height uniform between different models with different optional equipment. P5's have the longest springs because they are the heaviest.

What the dealer told you is just flat wrong. The suspension is identical, and the only reason the car has "structural enhancements" is to make the chassis stiffness close to the sedan, not to make it better.

All else being equal, the sedan will handle better than the wagon because it is stiffer and weighs less. Actually, all else being equal, the best-handling 99+ Protege should be the 99-00 DX because they weigh the least :)

Chris, what about those little doughtnuts they have for tires? :laugh:

ummmm.......then why does Edmund's say the Protege ES handles better than the LX and the DX when it tested an 2001 Protege ES?

I think the 16 in. Dunlops that the ES has makes it much grippier than the standard 14 in. steel wheels the LX and DX have...

Wheels & tires probably the biggest factor in improved handling...

I think Chris was referring to stock handling potential given the same wheels and tires. He's just trying to illustrate the importance of vehicle weight on overall handling ability.

Bingo :D