Driving tips
 

Sorry for the slightly off-topic question below. I'll start by saying I just rolled over 200 miles on my MP5 on the way to work this morning ... and I enjoy every mile more than the last!

Here's the question.... It's been a while since I've driven a stick, and I can do it pretty well for being self-educated. However, I'm looking for resources for more information. Questions I want answered are:

• What are the benefits of engine braking? Should I do it/should I always use the brakes? How do I overcome it when I need to drive slow, like in a parking lot? (the car seems to lurch a lot in these curcimstances).
  
• Should I downshift when I come to a stopsign/stoplight. I was told I need to downshift through the gears to "slow down the engine", but now that I'm wiser (read: OLDER!), it doesn't make much sense. As soon as I let my foot off the gas in 5th, engine rpm's drop to 1500. When I downshift, revs increase, so really, I'm speeding up the engine by downshifting.

Can somebody point me to an online resource for semi-advanced driving tips for driving clutch/stick, or help answer some of the questions above? Thanks in advance.

-Chris

Re: Driving tips
 

Doing this which I do myself over time will decrease your clutch life. Down shifting into a lower gear can also do some tranny damage if you're going too fast.

IMO placing it in Nuetral and using the brakes is you best bet. Also when driving in a parking lot I always use 2nd gear.

Allot easier & cheaper to replace pads then the clutch

I've got some mammoth speed-bumps to drive over at work, so I slow down to about 5mph. In 2nd, the engine is pretty dang close to stalling, but again, in 1st, the car is pretty lurchy (probably because, like me, it hates going so slow). It's kinda' like a lose-lose situation. Am I supposed to just deal with the lurching nature of driving slow, or is there something I can adjust in my technique to fix it?

I feather the clutch in these situations or I just clutch in fully and use my intertia to ride over the bump.

Option 2 is preferable to option 1 as there is less wear on the clutch...just make sure you have enough speed to clear the bump! :D

There's nothing wrong with downshifting. Keeps you in the right gear and it's not like you're downshifting and jumping up to 5,000 rpms. You just downshift so that the gear slows you down slightly and still use your brakes of course. You will eventually have to replace the clutch once well past 100,000 kms so the extra wear won't make a big difference in the end.

I also hate having to come to a full stop, so I always downshift and hope to be rolling when the light turns green.

The best way to downshift is of course heal/toe...of course that's a bit more advanced technique, but is pretty easy to learn and a heck of a lot of fun. Heal/toe downshifting reduces wear on the clutch because it is not having to speed up the engine/transmission to get into the lower gear, it's a seamless transition. It also prevents the lurch forward of a downshift without heal/toe. I do it all the time (almost every time I have to slow down) in my Miata, if for no other reason than to hear the exhaust when I blip the throttle. I do it occasionally in the P5...when I am driving "enthusiastically" :D

I was pleasantly suprised that the brake and gas pedal in the P5 are well placed for heal/toe (or in most people's cases, left side of foot, right side of foot) downshifting! Zoom Zoom! :cool:

As long as you are not downshifting at the PEAK speed for that particular gear....you are not going to damage your clutch....I have been using "engine breaking" for as long as I have been driving manuals...which is over 25 years...and I have NEVER EVER had a clutch wear out or need to be replaced prematurely because of it....my current truck has 125,000 miles on it and shows NO signs of premature clutch failure or excessive wear....

its all in how you do it....if you keep downshifting when the engine will rev back up to like 5500 r's...then yes....its going to make a difference...but if you are talking about just to somewhere between 3K to 4K....and you don't allow the revs to go to idle before you let the clutch back out...just like you don't do that when you are UP shifting....as long as you are not slipping the clutch...its okay....if the speed at which you are downhsifting is causeing the clutch to slip then its bad....

Let me make this clear to you as i did attend a brief seminar at advance stick driving.

When you downshift - if you rev match while downshifting ( also known as heal/toe ) but not necessary using the heal toe, just depress clutch, rev it up to where the engine would be on the lower gear and then put it back into gear, there is virtually no wear or tear on the clutch. This not only allows the engine to slow down for you, but also when done properly, there will be no forward lurching. Then you can add brakes when you need to come to a complete stop.

The most important thing about downshifting to slow down is that you ALWAYS stay in gear. What if you go neutral and you need to move out of the way for some reason, IE: another car, oncoming drunk driver, deer, and you need to speed up to get out of the way? You are in neutral and the reaction to get back into gear will be crucial to whether or not you live. So by downshifting you will stay in gear and have the ability to just gas it when you need to.

Driving in rush hour and parking lots:

The best way to avoid jurkyness is to feather the gas to about 1000-1500 RPMS and release the clutch just a bit to get you going then depress clutch and ride the momentum while in neutral. Once you have a good decent speed like 5-10 MPH then release clutch all the way and ride in first and it'll be smooth.

Any more tips, just ask.

Thanks for the tip, noodles (you too, mazdanew). This bit of info above is what'll keep me downshifting. 99.9% of the time it'll just be a waste of a micron of material on my clutch, but that time when I need to be in gear, I'll be damn glad it is.
I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Had to to drive the crummy GrandAm today because of a trip to town right around 5pm rush hour. I don't want that kind of stop-n-go strain on the car just yet - she's still gettin' warmed up! (only 250 miles so far...)

Thanks for all the help.

Why not just come to a complete stop at the bumps and then accelerate over them?

I practically have to -- that's kind of the point. I get over one of them, and there's no point in accellerating much, because I have to practically stop again for the next one. So, I end up driving with my car bucking around in first gear.

I would like to point out that this is considered "coasting" and is illegal in most states. Check you states operator's manual. This is true also for automatics (they have neutral too).

The reason that coasting is illegal is exactly how noodles says "It greatly diminishes ones ability to handle their automobile in a situation of crisis.

When you are slowing down your car, there are many times when you don't actually come to a complete stop. You slow down because someone pulls out in front of you, but eventually speeds up; or you slow down for a traffic light that turns green before you stop. If you are downshifting/engine braking when this occurs, you just have to resume accelerating in the gear you are in and then upshift like normal. If you are coasting, then you suddenly have to pick a gear from Nuetral that appropriately matches your speed. I've been with drivers who have both stalled their cars and revved them way too high trying to do this.

Do you put your automatic transmission in neutral before you slow down. Hell No!!! So *everybody* leaves their automatic in gear when they stop.

I'd also like to agree with Sir Nuke. I had a 1994 Toyota pickup, a daily driver with 128,000 miles on it. I always downshifted when stopping, and not only did I not have to replace my brakes. I never replaced the clutch either.

I think I've said this before, but next time you see an 18-wheeler on the street, pay attention to when he has to stop. I guarantee that you'll here that sucker engine braking like made.

Now I have to re-read this and make sure I didn't misspell braking. No one wants to have engine breaking... ugh

Good info -- thanks, guys. Now, not only do I have to teach my wife to downshift .. I have to try to convince her to always do it!

0-Chr9s

Hey No problems. But i garauntee in like a few weeks you'll have it all mastered! ;)

Regarding going slow at 5 MPH, just do what i told you to do in parking lots about going slow, except rev it a lil higher (~2000rpm) , clutch in a bit on 2nd gear and release and ride over bumps with momentum. That way you don't really go into gear at that slow speed, but engage it just for a bit and it won't feel like it's going to stall because you've rev'ed the engine prior to clutch engaging. Hope this clears it up for you a bit more.

Also Brubeck reinforces my point about downshifting. So just take your time and learn to downshift, it'll be jerky at first, but you'll get the hang of it later. I'd suggest practicing from 4th to 3rd as that's usually the easiest, then from 5th to 4th then from 3rd to 2nd.

Anyways good luck!

Yeah but it's pretty hard for a cop (or anyone besides the people in the car) to know that you're "coasting", so I don't see how can they catch illegal "coast-ers" :D

But you're right, it's must safer to stay in gear as much as possible, when possible.

One more thing is when travelling on long long downhills, if you don't downshift and use engine braking, u'll probably burn out your brake pads.

My rule of thumb for downshifting is

If I am coming to a red light and I have to stop quickly, I put it in
neutral and use the brakes.

If there is lots of time to stop at the light I will downshift,
picking the right rpm when I downshift so I won;t rev to high.

And ALways pay attention to traffic ahead of you. ahead of you
especially at intersections

I usually follow through the gears when I'm slowing down, clutch to the floor. If I have to make an emergency stop, or need the engine braking (which is why you leave an automatic in gear) I downshift through the gears. You won't really cause any harm to your engine and transmission by doing this and if traffic ahead of you starts moving you can let out the clutch and be on your way.

If done correctly engine braking will add no more wear and tear to your engine than accelerating. Match your revs and you'll be ok. When I was training drivers for Laidlaw I wouldn't pass anyone who wouldn't downshift. Many truck drivers have been killed riding their brakes down long hills and having them fade to nothing.

Don

Damn Laidlaw, their stocks crashed on me a year ago :mad:

Yeah, the brakes will fade too much if you only use them to slow down.
Another thing, when you're downshifting, go from whatever gear you're in down to the next one, but don't downshift into first gear. I always downshift down to the second gear and then put it in neutral from there.

As for the speed bumps, as noodles said, put your car in 2nd gear and play around with the clutch almost all the way in and light gas to give it some momentum then push the clutch back in and let go of gas, slow down for the next speed bump with the clutch still in, and then light gas again with letting the clutch go a bit, etc.
Practice is the most important thing. Took me forever to get a decent hang of standard.

Remember, let me know when you going for window tinting! We better get a deal or i'll shove my foot up their ass! :D

Heel/Toe
 

Just a little info on the heel and toe technique.

Heel and toe downshifting is taught in racing schools for the following reasons...
1. Most race cars short of indy cars or F1 have non-synchronized transmissions, so in order for the gears to mesh properly on the downshift, you need to double-clutch.
2. You are normally downshifting as you approach a turn. You also want to accelerate until the last possible moment as you approach the turn and then go to full braking (called threshold braking). If you have to take your foot off the brake to blip the throttle, then you have to brake sooner, losing time. So, heel-and-toe allows you to blip the throttle for the downshift while continuing to apply max braking.
3. The purpose of the downshift is to be in the proper gear when you are ready to apply power in the middle of the turn. Blipping the throttle also ensures that the car remains balanced as you downshift to the lower gear. If you just downshift and let the clutch out, weight is transferred to the front tires and you get trailing throttle oversteer.

All of this has little to do with the poster's original question, but thought I would throw it out.

I can't heel-and-toe my P5 since I got it for the wife with a (yucchh) automatic. :rolleyes: However, I do it in my miata all the time, just to stay in practice.