Autocross Setup - I'm I Doing This Right?
 

Okay,ever since we picked up our 2003 Protege DX I have LIVED on the Protege Club website! I've been reseaching the best setup for the car for a couple of weeks now and here's what I came up with for an autocross setup. But first the stock class rules.

These are the ONLY stock legal changes you can make to the car:
-Shocks (springs must be stock)
-Front sway bar and linkage (rear must remain stock)
-Intake (no changes allowed)
-Exhaust (after the cat is free to do anything you want)
-Brake pads/shoes (rotors must remain stock)
-Wheels 15x6 (must be same diameter/width as what came on the car)
-Tires (anything goes as long as they fit on stock size rims)

NO other modifications can be made to stay in the "stock" class. So here's what I'm thinking of doing:

-Mazdaspeed ADJUSTABLE shocks (the yellow aftermarket ones)
-Front sway bar (can't find one!)
-Cork Sport front sway bar linkage (is it longer or shorter than stock)
-Rear sway bar linkage? (do I need longer or shorter to match new shocks?)
-K&N drop-in filter
-Replace muffler with straight pipe (do this at the joint over the axle - anyone have a stock muffler they want to sell? I need the "joint" for the muffler shop)
-Porterfield R4-S rear shoes (should help car "rotate")
-Lightweight (9 lbs) Bogart 15x6 3-piece wheels from my '99 Miata
-Kumho V710 tires also from the Miata (the ultimate!)
-Mobile 1 in engine / Redline MT-90 in tranny

Will all this work? I'm really worried about the Mazdaspeed shocks and sway bar linkage. I can't legally change ANYTHING on the rear sway bar and I'm worried I'll have to with the Mazdaspeed shocks. But maybe I can "cheat" and use MSP/MP3 rear swaybar linkage and no one will notice.

Speaking of cheating.....does anyone know if the ES springs will lower my DX? By how much?

I can't wait to get this stuff ordered!

naw i don't think the es springs will lower it, the es dx and lx are all the same thing its just sum have minor differences 4 wheel discs, 5 lug ,power windows locks junk like that
everything else i know nothing about really i'm not into auto cross
peace
dante

Why stay in stock? Move up to Super Stock. Replace the rear sway bar with the racing beat one and install Protégé 5 end links, in stall an aftermarket intake, Add a front strut bar, install a header, remove the cats, and install aftermarket adjustable struts and lowering springs and use racing rubber. I’m from Canada so I am not sure if the ruling for the US stuff in the same. I am allowed go up to 6 points before I’m bumped to the next class.

Don’t forget about the autox alignment!!!!!

Because I've already got a "serious" autocross car. This one is supposed to be my "fun" car!

Besides, I don't like running a highly prepped car locally. It scares away the newbies! I'm hoping that when they see me running a basically stock Protege with Miata rims, it will bring out some new "non-sports car" types. Right now, it seems like everyone thinks you need an S2000, Miata, MR2,Vette, etc.... Car's like yours and mine help squash that misconception.

Thanks!

mitchman, the ES springs will not lower your car, but they are slightly stiffer.
And from what I've heard from you so far, I guess that would be cheating.
That said, I'd be willing to sell you my stock muffler--axle-back, and the springs too, if you want. PM me with an offer for one or both and tell me where you're located. I manage a transportation company so I'd be able to ship to you at my discounted cost.

i'm not scca-smart but "stock suspensions" are allowed right?? why not buy the whole MSP suspension since it's "stock" anyway?? those things handle like slot cars.

Yeah, "stock suspensions" are allowed, but you can't mix and match and be legal. I did think about that though! :)

When they say stock they mean what came on that particular model when purchased. Correct me if I am wrong but I only think your allowed to change over parts if that car came with an option of upgrading that particular component during the time of purchase. This would only include items that were from the car manufacture not an upgrade that the dealer came up with to help sell the car.

I found the SCCA rules...do you guys have a point chart cuz i cant find one.

MazdaCub- That's correct. It had to come on the car as delivered. I could run the ES springs if I completely converted my whole car over to an ES (interior/exterior trim, wheels, etc...)

I'm just going to stick with my stock DX springs...which are legal.

Anyone know anything about swaybar linkage? When I change to the yellow Mazdaspeed adjustable shocks (not the blue OEM ones), will my stock sway bar link's still fit? I'm not worried about the front linkage because I plan to purchase new adjustable links from Cork Sport. But my OEM rears may be too long/short. If that's the case I'm going to have to cheat and purchase OEM Mazdaspeed Protege rear sway bar links and hope nobody notices. :(

I would get the Racing Beat bar that was installed on the Mazdaspeed. All you need is the bar, new bushings, clamps, and rod ends from the Mazda Protégé 5. Refer to this link for more info …I have installed 2 bars on a P5 and one on a ES and you do not need a new cross member. I can get you the part numbers if you like.

http://www.protegeclub.com/showthread.php?t=38669

I didn't know anything about a crossmember. But that's good to know I don't need a new one! :)

What about rear sway bar end links? Because I'm getting new Mazdaspeed yellow adjustable shocks, will the tabs on the new shocks cause the stock rear sway bar end links be too long or too short? I can't purchase adjustable end links for the rear sway bar. That wouldn't be legal (and it would be vary obvious). :)

Use the ones off the P5 for the rear. I dont see why you have to replace the front ones, your not going to lower the car and if you were people lower the car 2 inches and still use the stock fronts and replance the rears with the P5 ones. Give me a few min and i will find you the part numbers.

Cool! That's exactly the info I needed! Just to be clear, my rear sway bar will remain the same. The only thing that's changing is the shocks.

Do you know if the stock P5 rear sway bar end links look the same as my DX rear sway bar end links? (I hope they do!)

Exactly the same but shorter. All you need is the racing beat bar, part # BP7H-28-151A, the stabilizer bushings part # BN7H-28-156E, and stabilizer plates, # BN7H-28-155A ( these are the horseshoe shaped plates that fit over the bushings ).

I wont tell anyone... it would be our little secrete. Lets just hope people you race with are not on this site.

So these part numbers are for the Racing Beat FRONT bar....correct?

Do you have Mazda part numbers for the P5 REAR sway bar end links?

Thanks a lot!

No this is all the numbers for the rear of the car. I recommend not replacing the front with a Racing Beat bar. This will increase the understeer of the car and will drive you nuts. The car handles like a dream with the Racing Beat rear setup.

Ohhhh........Bummer...... I can't make ANY changes to the rear suspension (springs, sway bar, linkage, etc...) I thought I was clear on that. :(

I've heard from some top national level drivers, that stiffen the front swaybar DOES work to help REDUCE understeer. I've had the same experiece with my '99 Miata. The stiffer front bar reduces roll stiffness which keeps the tire flatter to the ground.....more rubber on the road.

I wanna give it a try....especially since I can't make ANY changes to the rear....legally. :)

So I wonder if Racing Beat sells just the FRONT bar? Or if anyone has one they'd like to sell?

Do you still think I need shorter rear links for the rear swaybar to work with the Mazdaspeed yellow adjustable shocks?

the MSP suspension isin fact a factory option you can purchase from any dealer and have installed at the time of purchase or afterwards....it's like choosing stock wheels or sport wheels...

I understand. You have to buy the whole car (Mazdaspeed Protege) which comes with the upgraded suspension.
But because the SCCA rules say that I'm free to do what ever I want with my front sway bar, I'd like to try upgrading to a stiffer one. Racing Beat is the only company that makes them. And oddly enough, they don't sell the sway bars on their website. So I guess I'll have to order one from Mazda? Or maybe Mazdaspeed motorsports? Hmmmmm.......

hey man whats goin on? i autocrossed both an ES and DX model and honestly the only difference that i noticed was the power...

Shocks- go for the ones one racingbeat...
Springs- stay stock...bc the protege does not have a chance in FSP or STS... its a competitive car in HS... Well its kinda win with those damn Minis... I have been autocrossing for 7 years...
TIRES- Easy choice- Falken Azenis... get em at tires.com... When i ran my ES i used the DX tire size..the 14s...no one ever protested...
I also had my front end toed-in...
Exhaust- for for the Racing Beat one...
invest in a TACH... I use to bounce of the rev limiter all the time.. and then with 5k miles my DX was burning oil... OPPPS

Now i have a Mazdaspeed protege as my autocrosser and a S2000 as my track car... I would rather race my Protege... if u have any other questions... Let me know

by the way, YES you are allowed to do whatever you want to the front sway bars... u jsut cant touch the rear... GO crazy... CHEAT... hell people buy em and spray paint em black.. well not me, but i see people who do that

there is NO difference in power in an '03 DX or ES

i notice you are looking for the mazdaspeed adjustable shocks. i don't know if anyone even carries them anymore. their design is far superior to the illuminas, especially in the sedan's case. i bid you good luck. everything you are doing seems right on from my standpoint. perhaps running a little negative toe will help with turn in (but will also give you a real twitchy ride on the street).

here's an idea, instead of dumping money into the protege all at once before the season starts, why not go out to the first race completely stock, even down to the wheels and tires. see how the car does that way, then slowly add mods as the season goes on, adding one or two components that keeps you within HS per month. that way, you can really dial in the car. it's a fwd car and is vastly different than your miata, so that's my suggestion. tis' all!

oh yeah, try www.mazdastuff.com for the front and rear sway bar. if you can't get just the front, then i say go to your local dealer and order it from them.

Mazdaspeed17-
Shocks: I want ADJUSTABLE shocks. The Racing Beat shocks aren't adjustable.
Springs: Yeah, I agree. I'm just going to leave the stock one (so I can stay in stock class)
Tires: Sorry, but I'm not going to race in the STREET TIRE class. I'm going to race in H-Stock. So I can us RACE TIRES. I'm just going to use the wheels/tires from my Miata. Kumho V710's...MUCH better than Azenis.
Racing Beat: Too heavy (not much lighter than stock!) I'm going with a straight pipe.
Tach: Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. But I just might be careful with it for now (I'm running Mobil One and Redline MT-90)

Tonkabul- THE VOICE OF REASON! Thanks!
ES vs DX: Good to know. I was a little worried when I read that!
Shocks: I've found two places that have one set left. And one place has them on special. I think I'm going to go with them. I'm glad to hear that you think they are better (no one has provided any advice on this except you)

Setup: A person I know that is currently autocrossing a 2003 Protege DX (just like mine) has worried about rolling the car. He said it's a good idea to always run the front swaybar and good shocks. So I want to AT LEAST get the shocks. Maybe a Racing Beat bar down the road.

Racing Beat Sway Bar: Do you know how much thicker/stiffer it is than the stock bar? A lot or a little?

DX/LS/ES Front Sway Bars: Rumor has it that each car had a progressivly stiffer front bar. Anyone know if this is true?

Thanks for EVERYONE's help on this. I'm getting close to getting this thing setup! The only think I have left to do is find longer wheel studs so I can mount my race wheels. Anyone have a source for this? I'm going to check my local tire stores.

the mazdaspeeds are a better design just cause you can adjust the settings via a dial on the outside of the strut (on the back at least) instead of having to rip open your interior every time you want to adjust as in the case of the illuminas.

ok, did some digging around and found that all non mazdaspeed proteges had a 23mm front sway bar. if no one verifies this for you, i'll do it when i'm under my car when i get it back. the mazdaspeed (racing beat) sway bar is 25mm. there were reports of the early msp's getting a 27mm front bar, but i don't think you can get that size even from the dealer anymore.

as for rear sway bar, if the dx has it, it's probably about 16mm. yep, pencil thin. as for tires, i'd stick to the kumhos. the azenis are known to get greasy at temp. they have new azenis coming out with a redesigned treadpattern and compound that isn't supposed to grease up, so we'll see how those guys do running them. good luck on your quest to protege dominance!

oo, just another idea that popped into my head. since you can tweak with the front suspension so much, why not go to adjustable endlinks? you can then play with the angle of the front sway bar to either push or pull the car, which would be neat to figure out with JUST the front bar. go here for front endlinks:

http://www.awrracing.com/pages/store.html

it's under the protege suspension section. they run $65 a pair.

Thanks! I'm going to order the shocks today.

I REALLY appreciate the info on the front sway bar. I wasn't able to find out anything my self. Sounds like the Racing Beat 25mmis the way to go.

I'll definatly purchase the AWR end links. I think they are the same thing Cork Sport sells (I've been looking at them)

The next hurtel is alignment. How do you adjust negative camber in the front? I assume you push down and twist the shock mount in the wheel well? (not an easy thing to do...)

Also, longer wheels studs....and I think I'll be all set! :)

Thanks again for the advice (sure wish I could get your email address....PM me?)

i don't know too much about alignments other than the stock setup doesn't allow for much camber adjustments at all. i say go with some eibach camber bolts that allows for up to -1 degree camber from the stock's maximum. you just gotta make sure the toe stays within reason. the top mount has a pinkish dot that can be rotated, but that doesn't give you much at all. the other problem with alignments is you gotta find a shop will do it for you. most shops won't fudge with alignment specs outside what they are supposed to be from factory. who knows why.

check your PM, i sent you my email addy.

If you are going to cheat, what's the point of having rules? I know there are people who will do this, but cheating just shows how much disrepect people have for whatever game or sport they play.

Yeah, I agree. Stock legal rear swaybar for me. :(

We'll see how good a driver I am! :)

UPDATE:

I autocrossed the car again last weekend. This time I disconnected the front sway bar and ran 205/50/15 Kumho Ecsta V710 tires Front/Rear.

THE CAR ROTATED!

I was very happy. It actually handled well! Check out my results:

PAX Time Results
Raw Time Results
All Times

What's funny is that there were 3 other cars signed up to run in my class. But when I showed up for the awards presentation, they had all pulled out and moved to another class.

Disconnecting the front sway bar also helped keep the inside front tire from spinning so much exiting turns. But I still wish the car had a limited slip differential. (Hmmmmm.......2006 Civic Si?) But otherwise I was impressed with how well it did.