my_moms_protege

Hey folks.

I don't own a Protege, or even a Mazda for that matter, but my darling mother does, and she's having problems with it. Hopefully someone here can point me in the direction of the solutions to the problems so that she can once again have faith in her car.

My mum has a 2003 Protege LX 2.0, automatic, purchased brand new in August 2003. Being a little old lady, she babies that car. It's always parked inside, and has been serviced by the dealer exclusively. Also, she is the only person who has ever driven the car.

About a month ago she car developed a very rough idle and would stall at traffic lights. It became difficult to start the car again, though once going at speed it would be fine. A CEL accompanied the stalling. She took it to the dealer right away and they said it was a coil pack on one cylinder that was dead. So they replaced it. She drove the car off the lot and it died again within a block of the dealership. They said the technician had replaced the wrong coil pack. (Keep in mind I have never looked under the hood of this car before, and I am relaying the information as it was told to me by her) Naturally I was pissed off that the technician had given the car back to her without test driving it first. They took the car back, and supposedly switched the coil packs around and voila it ran fine again.

This morning, the car cranked and cranked and cranked but wouldn't start. When it finally fired it ran fine. She went out to run an errand and then called me up to say that the rough idle was back. She brought the car over to me, and sure enough it was idling like an out-of-balance washing machine, with the idle going lower and lower until the CEL popped on again. We started it up and I followed her to the dealership in my car (she won't let anyone else drive her baby). She tells me that about a block from my house the O/D Off (or something like that) light came on in addition to the CEL.

Recent work done to the car:

Timing belt change
Transmission replaced (last year)
Valve adjustment
+ Regularly scheduled maintenance.


Quite frankly, I am fed up to the teeth with this car (and this dealership). If anyone has any clues as to what can be causing this I'd appreciate hearing them so I can either fix the problem myself or confront the dealer.

Thanks in advance.

eggynatey

How many miles are on the car? Do you live at a high elevation?

It could be something as simple as a clogged cat or bad 02 sensor. A rough idle can mean a lot of things. An air/fuel problem is what comes to my mind first. Does it smell like gas when it dies?
I'd take it to a reputable mechanic and see what code the CEL is showing, then figure it out from there.

Good luck!

my_moms_protege

I had written a detailed response but the site ate it, saying something about an "expired token" not cool.. not cool.


I'll try again.


165000kms/102000miles

Elevation ASL 550'

Who could be more "reputable" than the Mazda dealer who sold her the car brand new and has serviced it ever since?


I gathered some more information on the problem.

December:

She said it all started when she would let off the gas when approaching a stop sigh, or traffic light. The car would lurch as though it drove into a gust of wind. Then the rough idle would kick in and the car would need quite a bit of gas to keep it going. She said that increasing speed was difficult as the car was now very sluggish. When trying to g from 40km/h up to 60km/h (25mph to 40mph) the car wouldn't respond to the throttle until it was "almost all the way to the floor" and then it would "kick in" and go like a bat out of hell. A CEL followed this and she took it to the dealer who told her it was an internal backfire caused by a bad coil, which they ended up replacing. Of course that didn't fix the problem, because a block from the dealer it did it again, and back it went.

Yesterday the dealer told her they would so some sort of "flush," she thinks it started with an "e" if that helps anyone perhaps it's a Mazda specific term? I only know Hondas. It turns out, they didn't touch the car and now she's stranded without a vehicle.

My original thought was something to do with the air/fuel system. I know how tricky they can be. We both buy our gas from the same service station (87 for her, and 91+ for mine) and I have never had any problems with contaminated fuel. She always keeps the tank topped right up to avoid condensation in the tank. I can't comment on the fuel filter, because i don't have access to the maintenance records, or know the mx schedule for the Protege. What I do know is when they call, she takes it in.

Regarding the fuel, she says it takes "regular" gas. There seems to be some confusion though with the exact meaning of "regular." To me it means 87, or the "cheap stuff," though in talking to her I get the feeling "regular" to her is unleaded. Without the car or the manual on hand I don't know what the car is supposed to take. What is the recommended octane for those things?

Air:

I know on a Honda, a vacuum leak causes a fluctuating idle, but not being familiar with Mazda, I'm not sure if the same can be said for them. In any case this one has a severe idle drop, CEL + OD Off light, stalls, poor throttle response, and sometimes doesn't want to start at all.

The dealership seems to think it's an ignition problem. Another theory they raised was the valves staying open too long, which would indicate a timing problem, though the timing belt was changed in August. Perhaps it jumped a tooth? Though it ran fine from December till yesterday. By far the most ridiculous thing the technician said was "you're too good to your car" meaning she doesn't dive it hard enough. It's hardly a high performance thoroughbred with a 10k redline. Why would someone have to drive the snot out of it to keep it in working order?


If the car wasn't marooned at the dealership I would have a look at it myself. If it comes right down to it, I will, in which case I'll need all the help I can get. Are there any shop manuals available online for free?

eggynatey

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

There is a ton more traffic at this other site, and I'll bet someone there can help you out. Good luck!

Mazdas 24/7: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/index.php









.

meGrimlock

DESCRIPTION • Engine stops unexpectedly at idle and/or after start.

POSSIBLE CAUSE
• A/C system improper operation
• Air leakage from intake-air system parts
• Purge solenoid valve malfunction
• Improper operation of IAC valve
• EGR valve malfunction
• No signal from CKP sensor due to sensor, related wire or wrong installation
• Vacuum leakage
• Low engine compression
• Spark leakage from high-tension leads
• Poor fuel quality
• PCV valve malfunction
• Air cleaner restriction
• Restriction in exhaust system
• Electrical connector disconnection
• Open or short circuit in fuel pump and related harness
• No battery power supply to PCM or poor GND
• Inadequate fuel pressure
• Fuel pump mechanical malfunction
• Fuel leakage from fuel injector
• Fuel injector clogging
• Immobilizer system and/or circuit malfunction
• Pressure regulator control (PRC) system malfunction

i experienced the same type of rough idle, without the stalling. the spark plug in 1 of the cylinders was covered with some sort of dried caked thick layer of carbon. i replaced the spark plug, and when i checked on it a week later, the same spark plug was covered in wet oil.

checked the coil plug and it was fine. had to replace the boot though. also replaced the valve cover gasket to prevent any more oil leakin. so far so good.

the easiest things to check are always the best to start with. open up the air filter box, inspect the intake hose (its been known to develop cracks), check for leaks, the pcv valve is a $3 part.

87 octane is all you need. any higher and you might as well pay me the difference in change.

a trustworthy repairshop is worth its weight in gold, and not all dealers are trustworthy. ive had a few dealers that just plain didnt do the work i requested and handed it to me as job complete. lucky for me there are a few neighborhood garages that have been helpful and fixed all the problems, though they have not always been cheap.

you seem pretty knowledgable already, you are probably on the right track. i do agree that you will get a better volume of responses in a more popular forum.
-meGrimlock

my_moms_protege

Hey guys, thank you for the replies.

The problem turned out to be the EGR valve. They said it was sticking open when the engine was hot.

She would experience the problem, then take it to the dealer for them to fix. They would let the car sit and cool off, then take it once around the block and find no problem with it. They poked and prodded but fixed nothing, then take it for another run around the block (again finding nothing) and then hand it over to her. This time they took it out for a proper drive and voila!

Hopefully it doesn't give her any more problems.

Thanks again.

meGrimlock

the issue they found had a TSB for earlier protege, this model year should have been ok. but there has been some common reports of rough idle due to the egr valve. one solution was to source a canadian-spec egr valve (FSY1-18-W00). the canadian spec egr valve will come in especially handy if you live in cold weather climate area. hope this latest fix solves your problem