Intake ideas
 

Opps, I left this off. For the Protege5

As anyone made a intake system that only replaces the piping and leaves the factory box?

The advantages of this is that it keeps the car somewhat quite and doesn't have the bad effects of any of the open filter systems.

I believe that this system is made for the Focus and is considered to be pretty good because it doesn't lose torque anywhere, and adds at the top.

Exactly that's what I'm talking about. It seems like some of the best intakes are those that utilize the stock box. Their are lots of advantages to these:

They don't increase noise that much
They don't hurt driveability as bad
They don't increase intake temperature
They don't suck in water

Best intakes utilize factory box:rolleyes: .
Hurt driveability :rolleyes:
Increase intake temperature:laugh: Get a CAI
Suck water get an AEM bypass!
Open air filter:confused: bypass, bypass, bypass!
I am not trying to be negative but it sounds crazy.

Sounds like someone has fallen prey to marketing scams???? How much money have you spent in your intake system? And how much horsepower do you have to show for all of that flashy stuff?

CAI's will increase the intake piping by as much as 100% in some applications? Do you really think that's productive to helping the engine breath? Nope, it actually makes it harder for the engine to get air in most cases. That's why there are often times not any increases despite the fact that you're getting "cold air"

Short Ram's generally decrease the intake length (which is good) but they suck in hot air, which is bad. Which one gives the better improvement is going to depend on a lot of factors, that CAN'T be accounted for on a dyno.

What you need is a way to not increase the intake pipe length and still get cold air. That's the system that I'm describing.

I have spent $300 all told Injen, AEM, Tornado, and custom parts for air diversion. I would be happy to send you pics. The key is the scoop under the fender well that brings in cold air but also diverts water (even though I still have a Bypass. Also if you have taken apart the factory intake you would see the maze and length that the air has to travel.

In my opinion $300 is too much money for what you have. You can buy rebuilt turbos for under $300. Why should simple piping cost more then a turbo?

I've seen the stock intake system. The piece that I think would provide the largest advantage is replacing the snorkel that goes to the radiator with a different piece.

Make it shorter and larger. At the same time make the pipe between the airbox and throttle body larger and smoother.

Ice-Man makes this product that I'm describing for the Focus and I've emailed them to see if they have plans for a protege version. (yes, I know the focus doesn't have the same engine as we do, but the characteristics are very similar) Here's a write-up for the focus version: http://www.teamfocaljet.com/5_resour...ase/iceman.htm

As for my comment about hurting driveability. Most CAI's will increase hp(if they do anything), while losing a small amount of torque at low rpm. While this in itself isn't a problem, it does eventually lead to a problem, when you start adding more products that all reduce torque at low rpm, while adding high rpm hp. You will end up with a car that drives like a v-tech honduh. If I wanted that, then I would just buy one.

In case you have not checked how much intakes, bypass valves and other mods cost I suggest you do. Please go ahead and take a toilet paper roll and hook it up to your throttle body along with your $300 turbo and put it on your Focus. I am sure that will fall in the your price range for an intake.

You're too moody to continue this conversation with. You have to realize that not everyone shares your views on how to modify a car. Not everyone is going to be willing to shell out $300 for something that has never been shown to be worth that. No, 3hp is NOT worth $300, not for a daily driver anyway.

Does anyone else have any feedback on this?

lol at the last post by jcilforever. The thread should have ended right there, but i have something to say....i think that with all the electronics in/on the intake (sensors, MAF and so on) this type of fabrication may hurt performance. AEM and Injen spent many hours placing the sensors and other things. Their engineers know what they are doing and YOU don't. Quit being a cheap bastard and spend some money on a good product....there's plenty of them out there. Oh yeah....whats wrong with the engine having a little more growl to it. It sounds exactly the same to me when I'm droning down the highway at 80MPH.

:bt: azrakain
You have any info or pics of your stereo. I have had good luck with Kenwood decks. Also which short shifter do you have, how much, and where?

Where on injen's site does it say that an engineer designed that system? You're fooling yourself if you think they pay an engineer's salary to make CAI's. And if they did, don't you think they would state that? I would.

They have several contact people, and there's only 1 technical person while there are 4 people working on sales/marketing.

Hmmm, sounds like a company that's more about marketing then "engineering".

You guys are all being suckered out of your hard earned money, or is it your Mom's money?

jmauld this is for you
OK, I know I should not say anything else , but this can not help being said I AM AN ENGINEER:D THE END

Oh no, you're an engineer! What a coincidence, me too! Unfortunately that doesn't tell you squat about what I do, or what I know. There are hundreds of different types of engineers, many of which know nothing about any other field of engineering (I'm not accusing you of that).

I however, am NOT an engineer that has a "Tornado Air System" blocking the air intake.... You should know better then that.

You guys have been really helpful and have offered invaluable technical explanations of why my idea is bad :bt: , but even so, I would like to here other opinions to the original question?

Exactly, and those type of systems shouldn't be confused with ANYTHING that's produced by AEM, INJEN or any other company that you see their name stuck on the side of your neighbors honda.

goto the aem page:
http://aempower.com/application/indu...pplication.htm
scroll to the bottom and read!!! At least they publish that the cold air intake was not the most powerful configuration. There is no way that anyone can deny that an engineer designed where the sensors plug in. All performance craving people know that to get more power you need two basic things: MORE FUEL AND MORE AIR!!! You also can't deny that the cooler air is the more dense it is and therefor you can get more in the cylinders. I hope your mod. does work and work well, but i also hope that it doesn't throw the check engine light up. Also don't assume that everyone here are chicldren. That was uncalled to say are you spending mommies money. C'mon, give us the benifit of the doubt and also grow up....

The Man-
I am an Electro-Mechanical Engineer 5 years design and 5 years in the field. I am not flaunting that because all of us have skills that are different from others and that is what makes the world go round. I was going to make an intake that is positioned exactly the way the Injen is but why do the work if I can buy one for $230 and have Dyno tests to back them up compairing them to their competitors. I am not saying that there is no other product out there that could be more effective as we have little developed for our cars right now.

Also all companies use hype to sell products, that is why I tested the AEM and Injen and found Injen to perform better. MHP was out of the question due to price $300+. I have also done modifications to the Injen intake to make it perform even better ie. bypass and air supply diverter , but no one has shown me how to post the pics with out a web site associated. Yes the Tornado was an afterthought but I placed it in different areas of the intake and found the car to perform better (what is the harm it was a $30 risk that paid off). If I find that as I add mods that it hampers perfomance then it will go.

AS for the engine light it does not come on, however I am looking in to reprogramming the ECU to enhance the performance.
Also I took care of the design flaw that the intake has with wearing into the A/C line.

As far as spending over $200 on a mod that gives less than a minumum HP, realize that as you add other mods the performance of your car will only be inhanced with a good CAI intake( Flow, Differental Temp,etc...)

I also realize that everyone has different means and that is OK, but some of the suggestions and answers that (jmauld) gave did not make sense, especially a $300 rebuilt turbo ( who in there right mind would atempt to install that, it also did not make sense from the stand point of where is the intercooler? BOV etc...)

The Man- I have seen your intake and yes it does do the job but could it be more efficent, look better esthetically, and whouldn't it perform better if it was outside the engine compartment? I am not attacking you we all have different taste, ideas and prefer different areas of the car to spend money.

As for jmauld some people should think out and research before they post, I understand that he started out with good intentions, as did I, but it then became nonsense and I had to correct it.

Finally what is wrong with taking a good product and making it better?

PS The Man- please enlighten me where I can find that our engine requires 3.9 Quarts of oil, as ou manual on page 10-5 says 3.5 without filter change (dumb) and 3.7 Quarts with filter change.

damn, I was hoping this was over, let's try to calm the arguing down some. Nothing in this post is meant as a putdown, if you take it that way, then it's taken out of context.

Please point me to the dyno sheets for the protege intake comparison? I've seen the ones for the honda's but not the proteges.

Email me and I'll post them for you.

That was an example. The turbo is for another car that already has a factory turbo which is on its last leg and it needs replacing. Make friends, and help out with some tuner shops and they'll get you good deals on stuff.

ah, that's hard to ignore.... But, I'll leave it alone. :-)

Nothing, hopefully that is what we are all here for.


It sounds like you are doing custom work to try to improve the products that you have purchased. I commend you for doing that. However, it pissed me off that you were so quick to dismiss an idea before you even completely understood it. Which I'm not sure you still understand what I'm contemplating or why I'm contemplating that route. Which I'll now try to explain further:

The car belongs to me and my significant other. It's our trip car or weekend car and daily driver when I'm tired of driving the race car to work. I've had CAI's on cars before and I'm not up to having one a car that I'm going to take on 3-8hr trips. They have a tendency to be droning at highway speeds. If you don't mind that then the best route for you is the CAI.

I don't WANT this car to be loud and annoying. I however would not mind it having more power. Which is why you'll probably never seen me get an exhaust, but as soon as some real cams are produced I will have a set.

I also have my own "race car", which IS loud and annoying and I love it to death. This is the car that I spend my money on. It needs a lot of stuff done to it so that I can get it onto some roadcourses this year. Ie, a 3" exhaust, a rollbar, & a brake upgrade. The less money I spend on the protege, the more money I have to spend on my car.

Make more sense now?

Send me those pics and I'll post them. While you're at it do a writeup on how you can duplicate and I'll post that as well, that way others can benefit from what you've done.

Some food for thought...
 

I've saw an article on an on-line magazine about stock air intake systems and why they are so good...Yes, I said good.

Basically, the article said the basic argument that is going on here, engineers spent a lot of time and money designing the stock intake. Who did this at the after-market compnaies?? Most likely no one.

However, it also said that stock intakes usually have some amount of negative pressure in it. So, what do you do?? Run out and spend some $300 on un-proven technology? No, make a measuremtn device, and measure how much negative pressure is in your intake at various points.

Basically, what they found out is that *most* cars end up the same way. The stock air filter usually isn't the biggest problem. And, usually its the MAF, and where the air is being picked up. So, how do you fix it?? Not with a $300 intake. If you change where the air is being picked up often times you can get rid of the negative pressure.

Once again, some simple testing will reveal where to pick up that air. Is it that little hole that goes down into the fender on 3rd gen Proteges?? Who knows, did the company test that area?? Who knows??

I can post the links if you want so you can read for yourself. But, if you know a little bit, you know you don't have to spend $300 for 5 horsepower.

Hey guys just for a heads up, and to show what a little "planting a seed" can get you, here's some email between me and the guy at Ice-man.

My email to Ice-man:

> > I've seen the intake system that you make for the ford
> > focus. The one that keeps the stock airbox. I was
> > wondering if you have plans to produce one for the
> > Mazda Protege5. I believe that the Mazda Protege MP3
> > would also have the same fitment.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jason

His response:

> Hello Jason,
> Thanks for the heads up on the possible dual install. We want
> to look into that asap. I will be keeping an eye out for a mazda
> protege MP3 and when I can locate one I will check it
> dimensonally. If you know someone with that vehicle in this
> area please have them contact me asap. I will give them a
> free system and we will also hook you up with something or
> another for your efforts ok?



Anyone located near Bloomington CA 92316 and can volunteer their 2.0 protege immediately, please email me at jmauld@yahoo.com . As it says above, you will get a free intake system out of this. I imagine that you may also get a chance to put your car on a dyno.

As for you people who agreed with the "cheap bastard" part about me. Kiss my ass, and don't volunteer for this intake!

Jason

StuttersC, was that article on autospeed.com? I remember reading an article that showed how to make a intake vacuum tester.

Done.

I hope this works out!

Yep, that where I saw it...I'm just not sure how this board feels about just throwing up links and stuff like that...So, that is where I saw it though. I thought it was pretty interesting and I plan on going that route once I get some time and space to play with it.

Autospeed.com is a GREAT site. Of course those guys that pay everyone to do stuff for them wouldn't appreciate the information on that site!!

Yep...
 

I'd agree with that...

Can't post the dynos yet as they have to be offically released from injen per Tech Management and not on a website.

The man- I now that it is simple to post with a url but I do not have a website yet, although I do have a friend that hosts and we are working out a deal over glow in the dark paint in the next couple of weeks. Your are right about timing on the CAI if you do not plan on adding performance parts. I am creating a mix between race and show car.

jmauld- Congrats on Iceman as far as the airbox mod. As far as the pics I will post them when I seal the deal and have a website hosted Thanks anyway.

jmauld...I have a friend who did something similar with his saturn....here are some pics.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fdf9380d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...5/fdf9380e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/fdf9381e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4/fdf93822.jpg

Is that what you werew talking about?

lol....is that a leaf blower? My friend's intake on his saturn is really a filter made for a civic stuck on the end of his intake tube. He even left the snorkel on their, thinking it may feed more air to the filter.

Hey, is that Toro gas or electric powered? :laugh:

I did this to my friends car.

I took out the ram-air resonator which sits above the readiator out, then took out the water catch piece and left him with just a hole going into his stock box.

You can feel and hear the difference immediately. The car is more responsive and makes it a little funner.

Tomorrow we are turning it back into a ram air but the ram air will be in the fender instead of on top of the radiator.

I figured this would give more horses because the stock setup has 2 small holes for the air to come in. Well, its pretty much blocked up when the hood is closed. So I said, "hey, lets make the hole bigger." Now he has 1 ~2.5inch hole for air to come in and you can tell it helps the engine breathe better. If you step on the gas, you could suck up a bird :)

I drive an Accord (Ahhhh!!!!) and am going back from an expensive intake to the stock box with the same setup adding ram-air. Forcing the air in the engine. On top of that, it will already be colder and denser because its in the fender.

So if your looking for a free intake that's better than stock, take the resonator off.

-->David

I know this is probably evil on this thread, but I took out the airbox (ahh). I bought a 3" rubber elbow from Home Depot and a cone filter. I did have to move my radiator overflow, but I made the elbow curve from the intake tube around to point at the driver's side. I put the cone filter on the end of that, and made a hole for the map sensor. The filter is shielded from below from water splashing be a frame member in there, and it's behind the headlight and on the very edge of the engine compartment. It pulls better from about 3500 up and is a lot less restricted on the top end. I can definitely feel the difference. It is louder, but I love intake sounds. It's sort of a combination of keeping the piping about the same length, doubling the surface area of the filter, and keeping it out of the water. Just my simple thirty dollar idea.

A link to an article about moding the stock airbox was mentioned in the begining of this thread. It doesn't work for me. I went to the focus site and did a search on iceman and couldn't find the article. There was a thread about a guy who traded in his Focus for a P5 I liked, but not what I was looking for :D

Modifying Stock Air Intake
 

Searching for air intake with stock airbox, I came across a post by Traveler titled Restricted intake fix. He cut away the grill support right under the inlet to the snorkel thereby exposing the inlet to direct air flow through the grille. I decided to perform this modification and I obtained results similar to those reported by Traveler. There was a definite increase in throttle response and the engine revved up more quickly when going to WOT. In general, the car felt more responsive and powerful to a noticeable degree. Definitely more fun to drive. In addition, there was a slight increase in intake sound but nothing obtrusive-not at all like an AEM or Injen.

I'm not an engineer but I assume that the enhanced throttle response is due to the following factors:
1. the grille is located in a high pressure area
2. removal of the plastic piece allows the air flow a straight shot
to the inlet with a ram effect produced by the forward motion
of the vehicle
3. this ram is converted to a slight positive pressure at the inlet-
especially compared with the stock situation

This leads to the conclusion that the stock air intake position modified as Traveler has indicated may be the perfect take off place for an improved intake system. Also to be considered is the fact that this is a relatively protected intake. As the air flows through the grille it must then turn upward to reach the inlet. Since water is heavier than air, I presume much of the water would continue in a straight line or fall away from the inlet.

Traveler goes on to say that the stock air box, because of its design, is highly restrictive and cannot be made to flow for maximum performance. He suggests a redesigned box of aluminum or plastic coupled to an ambient air intake. This brings us back to jmauld's idea of incorporating the stock air box into a freer flowing system by eliminating the resonator and snorkel and replacing them with a better inlet but at the same time retaining the silence, and the paper filter, of the stock system.

I am suggesting a system that is based on the ideas of both Traveler and jmauld. A redesigned air box coupled to ambient ram air in the in the stock pick-up location via a smooth flowing pipe replacing the resonator and snorkel. I don't know how feasible any of this is but I would be very interested in your comments on such a system.

I currently have on order an AEM Short Ram which I will install at some point, but it seems to me an ambient ram intake might be superior to this or the Injen.

02 DX Millenium Red

Iceman Cold Air Intake with Stock Airbox
 

jmauld mentioned the Iceman cold air intake for Ford Focus as an example of what might be possible for the Protege. For those of you who might be interested, I've found a website where you can view the system.

www.modernperformance.com/ford/focusice.htm

02 DX Millenium Red
MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit
AEM Short Ram intake