Clutch Chatter.
 

OKAY here goes,

Anyone out there still have any problems with clutch chatter (aka clutch stutter)?
This is where you feel a violent chattering/skipping/stuttering when rolling away from a stop, usually when it is a little bit cold outside. (Trust me this is not a driver's error) I remember talking about it with a few guys a couple of years ago on the board and I was wondering if anyone still has the same problem that I have.

The reason I am still dealing with it is due to the fact that I took my ' 02 p5 in about a year and a half ago to Roto Mazda in IL, and they told me that the clutch chatter that I had just started experiencing was due to a defective factory flywheel. They also told me that they had heard of similar problems with other pro's and even some imprezas.

Anyways, they told me that they would replace my clutch and flywheel under my clutch warantee...but there was a catch. You see the Mazda clutch warantee only covers to 12,000 miles...and I was quickly rolling past 24,000 miles at that point. So basically they told me that it would cost me around $1800 for a new clutch, flywheel, and labor, and that Mazda would NOT cover it. After picking my jaw up off the floor, I left the dealership a little bit unhappy. :fu: After that I figured I would just bite my tongue and deal with the occasional chatter and wait untill I needed to replace the clutch in the future, and then take care of the flywheel and all.

So now that you know my story...is anyone just starting to or still dealing with this pesky problem? I would like to know how others handled it...I know there are many of you out there that had the same problem that I had.

Thanks for the info...sorry my thread is so long!

-Brad.

I also have the Clutch chatter but it only happens when the car is cold and has not warmed up....it has nothing to do with the outside temperature but the engine temp (for some odd reason).

If you're wanting to fix this permanently and gain a little in the process I suggest you check out SRmotorsports for their 15lb flywheel and then whoever can get you a nice aftermarket clutch. Don't put that weak stock crap back in. I saw the 15lb flywheel (3lbs lighter than stock) for $145.

That is exactly what I was planning on doing when I am replacing my clutch. I was looking at a 15lb flywheel a while ago, but I forget the brand name. I definetly will not replace the stocker with another OEM part.

Yeah I have exactly that problem that you described and yeah it sucks. I am rolling over 43,000 miles right now and it has gotten a little worse since it started at around 23,000 miles.

Thanks for the imput, Brad.

Anyone else still have this problem?

http://web2.airmail.net/theman/prote...000003848.html

Sound like you?
When unhappy with the BS answer you get in a local service department, call Mazda directly. They will help you out. I've had a "discussion" with a service rep.
Called Mazda and they said I was right and told me to go back and they would clear up the problem before I ever got there. And they did. Service manager apologized and made excuses for the service rep (who was never seen again in subsequent visits)

I tried this prior to ANY mods on my vehicle and they told me it didn't apply to me because I had an 03 P5 and the TSB only indicated it was for an 02. I have just had to accept that fact that no warranty is good until you actually get your car fixed for free....which will never happen with me!

So those terms state that I can have my clutch and flywheel replaced under factory recall or what? I am a little bit confused...and shocked. If this is possible, please tell me more, I would LOVE to get rid of this pesky problem.

Thank you VERY much, Brad.

A TSB is a RECCOMENDED dealer fix. They are problems that Mazda corporate acknowledges and advise dealers to fix. They do not however HAVE to do anything.

I would print off the TSB info take your car to the dealership, point out the problem and the TSB and ask them when you can pick the car back up. If they give you any lip drop your pants and take a huge dump on their service floor. Go to the next dealership and repeat the process.

Remember the dealership is there to earn your business AFTER the sale also. Don't be afraid to fight for what you're paying for.

I see, I will give that a try (minus the crapping on the floor part) and let you know what happens. I really hope they arent a-holes about this.

Thanks again, Brad.

I took a metal baseball bat into my dealership when my msp blew....maybe thats why I was escorted away by police....

I think pooping would've been better in hindsight.

i use the jdm flywheel (15lb) with a stock clutch, it works great

how much (if any) improvement did you feel with the 15lb flywheel? is it worth the $145 investment or should I just save up for the 8lb-er??

it was pretty hard to tell the diff. , i did a few other things at the same time, it is better for drag racing than the 8lb

My '02 P5 does it. I'm at 47k miles and plan to take it in for other minor warranty work and talk to them about it then. I accidentally cleared out my favorites folder with the URL to the TSB. I can search it out unless someone is kind enough to drop it in a quick reply.

I'll let y'all know what happens when I tell them to replace the clutch. I guess the flywheel and pressure plate are involved too.

What do you think...?
 

Hi, I have a 2001 LX (2.0L) and I experience exactly what is described here. I did not bother for the last 3 years because it went away quickly. But it is getting worse since 4-5 months.

Today I called the local dealer here in montreal (mazda 2-20) and left a message. After 5 hours I called back since I diden't get any news. I talked to the first guy I told me there was nothing on bad cluches on proteges. I asked him to check the TSBs just to make sure, he told me there was nothing on this subject (in about 5 seconds). I asked him if he knew them all on the top of his head and told me yeah!

Then, I got put on hold and another adviser took the call. This second guy was calm and seemed a bit more cooperative... But he told me he could not check the TSB because it is only the technicians who have it and it could take hours to find because it is a big book with all the models on the last 10 years (this stuff is not on computer??? It is not classified by vehicule???). He never heard of a cluch chatter problem on any proteges. He suggested me to call mazda canada, they might know.

The guy at mazda canada was really nice and told me he had heard of this. He also told me the name of the guy at my local dealer who is supposed to know these things. But he also said he had no access to the TSB so he could not give me a number and confirmed that the US TSB # is not the same one as the canadian TSB#. Also, he explained that it would be hard to get it fixed since my car is 3 years and 2 months and 86000km.

After another aswering machine game I talked to this person at my dealership. He told me there was no TSB about this (again without checking) but he knew this problem. He said it could be grease from the center bearing that splashed on the flywheel or a "blue spot". In any case, I would have to bring the car, they would have to re-produce the problem, take the thing apart and check. If it is the center bearing grease, maybe mazda would cover (maybe). If it is a blue spot, well, the entire job was on me (4.5 hours...)

Also, both guys at the dealership explained that the flywheel is not a part of the drive train (5 years waranty), it is part of the clutch (3 years). How can a solid metal part that nearly does not wear and sits between the transmission and the engine not be part of the engine/transmission waranty...

Anyways, I'm pretty digusted, specially since I did not even change the cluch once on my old car (380 000 km '87 jetta) even after 25 000 km of towing a 15' trailer.

So, what do you guys thing and/or recommend?

Thanks

^

I have the same problem..as do many protege's...The easiest way i have found to deal with this problem..is as the car is warming..pump the clutch pedal a couple of times..i guarantee this will help a considerable amount.

Chas

I will give that a try, thanks!

I am taking a trip to my local Mazda dealership tomorrow to see what they can do for me now that i have a copy of the TSB.

~Brad.

Clutch chatter TSB
 

I had the same cold start clutch chatter problem, looked at my odometer showing 34K and decided to take in into the shop. First, Googled "Protege Clutch Chatter" and found TSB MT3848: "Some vehicles may exhibit a clutch chatter or judder when releasing the clutch during cold conditions. This may be caused by the flywheel and clutch cover surface materials creating a chatter or judder during clutch engagement. The flywheel and clutch cover has been revised to correct this concern." It goes on to list the procedure starting with step 1. "Verify customer concern.", then lists the parts to order. The TSB covers 1999 through 2002 Proteges.

So I took it in and described the behavior to the service manager. Left the car over night so they could try it in the morning. Lucky for me, the overnight low was about 55 and they got to experience the problem. They called me to confirm they were ordering the parts and would need to keep the car until they came in. They also said this would be covered by warranty. When I picked up the car, the work order did indeed say warranty repair, no charge. They ended up replacing the whole clutch.

So, if your car is under 36K and you suspect you have the problem, absolutely take the car into to the dealer and have them fix it.

Glad to see that it worked for you, I hope it goes that smoothly for me.

Thanks, Brad.

the flywheel is part of the clutch assembly, even tho its bolted to the engine, it is still inside the bell housing and considered part of the "clutch assembly"... a 3 year warranty on a clutch is pretty nice IMO, i would expect them to not even bother considering it is quite easy to mess up a clutch if you know (or dont know for that matter :p) what your doing...

my advice to you all, is go in yelling, just yell yell and then yell some more, yell at them for not wearing a matching outfit, yell at them for the shitty parking spot you have, yell at them for not fixing your car, then make sure you ask a few times what each of their names are, and make sure you mention the fact that you will be calling the corporate offices later, and then ask for their names again, if that doesnt work...

poop...on...the...floor :p... only warranty messes i've dealt with was on the dakota my mom bought back in 95, and chrysler was NOT about fixing problems, they were more about telling you it will work fine and shoving you out the door, and this was even at the same dealership we BOUGHT the damn truck at, car manuf. are just shady :asshole:


good luck with it all anyway tho, hope it works out for the best :bt:

Well I went by Roto Mazda in Arlington Heights yesterday and gave James Pacelli, the head service manager, a copy of that TSB. He first looked through a book of TSB's for the proteges and did not find an identical one to mine. He then said that he would call Mazda directly tomorrow (today) and get back to me.

He just called and informed me that Mazda does not have any record of a TSB for this problem. He also said that the TSB numbers that were on the one given to me were not in existance.

He then told me that the only way that I could get Mazda to cover the clutch and flywheel replacement was if i waited untill the District Service Manager came in and I would have to leave my car there for him/her to drive it. If the problem was evident to them during the test ride, then they MIGHT reccomend it being fixed, if the chatter was not evident, then I was...and I quote..."SOL". He also said that the DSM comes in about once every 2 months.

All I want to know is if that "TSB" was real or not, and if I should take my car to another dealer and try with the same "TSB."

I am absolutely apauled at how Mazda is handling this very common problem with the proteges.

If you can help me at all, please let me know.

Thanks, Brad.

yes, the TSB is real and your dealership is LYING to you.....big shocker. My dealership told me that the TSB I showed them was only for 02 P5's and mine is an 03....they know it exsists they just dont want to do any warranty work. they want you to pay for it.

Ask to look over their shoulder while they look it up on their magical computer.. I bet you he didn't even try.

take a dump on the floor and leave. Go buy an aftermarket clutch and enjoy knowing that Mazda Warranty and Service won't get your money.

cant afford it on a college student budget...im gonna try another dealership.

Call Mazda directly:

1-800-222-5500
Monday through Friday:
8:00AM - 4:45PM (Pacific)
9:00AM - 5:45PM (Central/Eastern)

Ask them about the TSB...if it does exist, tell them the dealer flat out lied to you. They will straighten out the "misunderstanding" with the dealership. Basically, they tell them to do it. Failure to comply with Mazda directives can result in their license getting yanked.

When you go back to the dealership, demand to speak with the service manager, get pissy and indignant, "So your service advisor is incompetent or a liar? Which is it? If this the level of service I can expect in the future, I'll be sending my business and anyone who will listen to {insert other dealership name}."

You may get more out of this then a free clutch.

I would be glad to give that a try, thank you very much for the reply.

-Brad.

I too have been having problems with the clutch, basically from day one. I just put it off and never drove much in traffic any way. Now that I drive in traffic alot and have to always pepper the clutch when slowing and then accelerating it is driving me nuts. problem now is i am 2 months over the warranty. i have sent an e-mail to Mazda to see what they can do and I will call them if needed.

only 2 weeks ago did i find out so many others are having problems with the same car, thats when i decided to mention it to the dealer and then realized I am over the 3 years. Anyone reading this feel free to email me so i can use this as ammunition when discussing with the dealer and Mazda.

I was one who had no issues with getting the clutch and flywheel under warranty. I am in Calgary (Canadian car, Canadian dealer) I used the info from Edwin's FAQ. I actually had mine done twice (I took it in while still under warranty, so this may have helped...). The first time they replaced the clutch, but NOT the flywheel, under warranty, as they could not confirm the TSB number or something. The second time, after the problem started to reoccur, they had an update to the TSB and did the clutch and flywheel while my car was in for an oil change because I had mentioned it when I booked the oil change appointment. Imagine taking your car in for a $30 oil service and coming out with a new clutch, for $30.

In my opinion, getting as much info as you can, being polite with the dealers, talking to the people aho have some authority (i.e. service managers) is the way to go, and if you have issues, go to another dealer or contact Mazda directly. The manufacturer reimburses the dealer for warranty work, so it's no skin off their nose.

I can't say too much else. People have obviously had varying experiences with the dealers, but the bottom line is that it is a known issue, and if you go to other Mazda enthusiasts, you will find that certain other models have had clutch chatter issues as well.

And my 3rd clutch has worked very nicely so far (about 25000 km on it now)!

Sorry for the long post.

Dale.

Sorry for reviving a "thread from the dead", but I noticed a little chatter this morning pulling out of my neighborhood. It went away as soon as the car was warmed up, and from that point on, all shifts were buttery smooth and engagement was positive. I have to think if it was grease or a "blue spot" causing this, the problem wouldn't go away when the car warms up. This morning, it was probably in the forties here, with light fog. The fact that the brakes felt a little gravelly (due to slight morning rust) during the first few stops suggests something else to me. Is it possible that in humid areas (like Michigan), moist air can condense on the flywheel over a chilly night and form a light layer of rust that is responsible for the chatter when the car is cold? Or, does it slip due to this light layer of condensation, and the chatter goes away once the car is warmed up and the water evaporates? Just a thought on the matter.

I am pretty sure it is not a big problem. I know what a damaged flywheel feels like... my Ford Ranger had an uneven flywheel that should have been resurfaced when the clutch was replaced, but instead was touched up with emery paper. THAT, my friends, was clutch chatter, and it didn't ever go away until I replaced both the flywheel and the clutch again 40K later. But I was young and stupid back then, and I know more now...