Cam Gear tuning... -Dyno tuning-
 

We installed Adjustable cam gears, 60mm Throttle body, and made a heat sheild and tubing for a K&N Cone to match the MAF. still have stock exhaust, cat, and exh. manifold. but it dynoed pretty well... it's a Friend of mines 02 Pro 5, 5spd with 24k miles on it...


http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2312862.jpg

the stock runs with out the 60mm tb was 99hp 106lbft

stock with out the K&N Cone and heat sheild 97.8hp 104.9lbft

Single high flo cat and custom exhaust from enthuzacar soon to come.

That's great that you installed cam gears, but what cam timing did you use to get those dyno numbers? Also, did you test the cam gears or oversize t/b by themselves so you knew what gains came from what parts?

Inquiring minds want to know. :D

Nope.. ran the cam gears with the TB and K&N installed..

I'll get a pic of their settings tonite. the dyno sheet was sent to me by the dyno tuner about 2 hours ago.. we don't have the car back from the shop yet.

www.dynotuner.net www.balancedperformance.com

What adjustable cam gears did you use?

sunbelt performance ones..

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2313821.jpg

and their larger TB as well...

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2313820.jpg

I've got the Tripoint gears on my '96 Probe set to 4 degrees advance on the intake cam and 0 degrees on the exhaust. The intake advance is a definite performance enhancement.

I tried retarding the exhaust, but our distributor is driven off the exhaust cam, resulting in ignition retard and poor performance. On the Protege the exhaust retard should help performance as well.
Bill

who sells sunbelt performance parts for the protege?

Silly question... if you've got a distributor, why can't you just advance the timing that way? :confused:

If there's some obvious, well-known reason why this can't be done, forgive me, I don't know that much about Probes. :)

The only problem is that the Protege's ignition timing also works off the exhaust cam, it just uses a CMP sensor rather than a distributor. If you move the exhaust cam, the CMP sensor and CKP (crankshaft) sensor will be out of sync and the ECU will throw a misfire code. :(

Actually, this brings me to another Protege ignition idea I've had before... slotting the CMP and CKP sensor mounts and moving the sensors to fool the ECU into advancing the ignition timing. :D After I get another vehicle to drive, I intend to try it. :bt:

No, it's a good question. The '96-'97 Probe and MX-6 2.0 have an EEC V PCM. It uses the CMP (ours is a Hall Effect sensor inside the distributor) to set ignition timing. You can retard or advance the distributor housing all the way to the stops but the PCM will correct the ignition timing (using the CKP and CMP signals). I think this may be the same process you are describing on the Protege, but yours is apparently directly mounted on the camshaft while ours is internal to the distributor.

You might wish to look at a J&S Safeguard or possibly one of the MSD units. Some of those are capable of advance and retard independent of the stock ignition.

Bill

Is that with the stock cams, J-spec/MS or the Sunbelt cams? I'd like to know what the numbers are on the Sunbelt cams if thats what they are.

The graph looks to beat the 99/106 numbers all to shit too. Wht's up with that?

stock cams... Sunbelt cams and head work underway... :)

I'd really like to know the numbers of their cams, and why the dyno graph says 117.9ft-lbs but you report only 106. Let us know how it turns out with the head and cams at least.

Good chop on the belt cover BTW. Too bad that hall effect had to be retained.

bone stock it makes 106lbft.. with the Cam gears, K&N, and TB it makes 117.9lbft.

thanks.. the band saw and a little emory cloth does wonders for the aluminum cover.

One other question for 1FST2M6... to tie into our discussion about the CMP sensor, did changing the exhaust cam timing a little bit (like 1-4 degrees) actually light up the MIL and change the ignition timing? It's occured to me that the PCM might tolerate a little bit of leeway in the CMP sensor position to accomodate manufacturing tolerances. Also, the PCM might primarily use the CKP sensor to set the ignition timing and only use the CMP sensor as a check, in which case the timing might not be affected either.

Just curious. :D

hey 1rst,
how much if you dont mind was the TB?.
and what is the size?
and do you have a contact number for sunbelt?
thanks in advance:D

yeah i see its a 60mm. sorry
but the rest of the info please:D

So I'm confused, mainly because the dyno graph is very small and a bit hard to read the numbers. What were your HP/TQ numbers before and after? :D.

All in all thats a pretty good improvement for such a small amount of work. Is the TB larger meaning the coupling to the intake is larger as well? Or was it just increased a bit to flow better and can hook right up to the stock intake (I have an AEM Short ram) just curious. Thanks!

Chris

See, I told you guys that opening up the throttle body helps.:D
J/K. Anyway, good work. Anything that is a proven gain for these cars is a definite plus.

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2419543.jpg - larger / clearer

Stock at the Ground 99FWHP 106LBFT
Tuned at the Ground 105.3HP 117.9LBFT
60mmtb, K&N Cone filter, Cam gears set -89 octane midgrade from Shell-

thats a total of 6.3hp 11.9lbft increase at peak readings. The driveability has GREATLY improved due to the increase torque under the curve. peak hp is useless.. low end grunt to pull a ZX3 Focus, and worry a few others at a track is what we are tuning this car for. I've been buggin him.. he's GOT to shift this car at a max rpm of 4800-5000. anything past that is just sucking wind and loosing ground.

I'll post the Cam gear settings and the NEW dyno numbers with the Header and Exhaust upgrade. the first of next week.. got a busy weekend! :D

we are heading to the local strip tonight... I'm gunna run my bike for the first time on a strip and run a grudge match -My Wifes High Boost Turbo Diesel New Beetle vs S/C Focus and the above Pro 5 vs a N/A Focus. I'll post pics.

I'll post prices and their contact information soon. the parts we are using are for R&D.

Well its nice to see somebody dynoing after each part for the most part. I look forward to your numbers. So next up is exhaust and header right? After that its the sunbelt cams? I can't wait :D.

Chris

so did they bore out the stock TB all the way, including around the Throttle plate and replace it with a new larger plate? Or, is it just enlarged up to the throttle plate? Just curious. Also, are the cams being made with stock MAzda blanks that are ground to spec? Thanks, chris j.

the TB was line bored.. and a new 59.903mm butterfly was installed... the Cams are nickle regrinds.. but bar stock grinds are available at considerable additional cost. but there is no additional HP/TQ increase. and the wear charactoristics are virtually identical. Japanese spec factory cams are also somthing to consider.

My Father and I put nickle regrinds in his Lotus Europa and his 74 XJ12L both have over 70k miles on them and dyno within 2% of when we first replaced the engine and cams over 15 years ago. I've got a regrind in my nitrous fed Fiero 34k miles and no lobe wear noticable with visual inspection back in january when the heads were off the car.

A diesel beetle at the drags? Sorry if I find humor in that, but it's something you don't see every day.

Please let us know when you drop the new cams in and degree them. I'd really love to know the durations, and I assume the lift is such that the valves/springs need rewoked. I have a set of hardface regrinds @ 228/230 degrees that I'm having 2nd thoughts about using. That's why I ask. I had hoped to raise the shift point to around the rev limiter with them. Now seems stronger rods may be called for first.

YZF-R6, mid 10.3 @ 126 mph back to back with a stickly slick. Not bad huh?

Dude! i just realised you live in Kennesaw? I live in Alpharetta and used to live in douglasville! Ive never heard of Balanced Performance. Been to and used the dyno at Engineered Performance in Smyrna behind the NOPI store off of Spring St. by cumberland mall. Anyways, where'd you get those cam gears and how much, and how much and who bored your TB?

oh yeah and how do you like your Suzuki SV650S? My friend and I are both looking at getting one. I think its an awesome bike for the money!:)

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2419543.jpg

i don't want to sound like an ass, but all of your torque gains were below 4750rpm. if i was going to build and turn an engine, i would try to get more gains up top, while keeping what we have down low. if you could tune your engine to give you at least 100 ft-lbs across the board, at red line you would have 150+ hp at the wheels. (instead of the wussy 105hp that the stock configuration gives)

just my $0.02

I love my SVS.. it'll pull an F4i down the 1/8th mile.. :) -with a just a few mods it lays down 45.4lbft and 72.1HP- you'll be hard pressed to find that kinda torque in a 4cly bike. if your interested in a bike call Dave Will at Marietta Motorsports tell him Travis sent ya... We meet Tuesdays nights...
________________________

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Join US at Suburb-A-Night Pizza Bar in Historic Roswell every Tuesday night at 7pm starting March 4th for Two Wheel Tuesday. Pool table, darts and a BIG screen for the races. We look forward to seeing you ride-up to support this evening of fun and biker-camaraderie. If you need directions you can call Suburb-A-Night at (770) 594-8765.

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back to the car...

You can adjust the cam gears to have more upper RPM torque -BUT- it destroys the daily drivability of the car. advancing the intake cam 6* and retarding the exh 2* the car maks 119.4hp... but only starts to pull decent at 4200rpm.. hardly a useful street car, and as an autocross vehicle the low end torque pulls it out of the cones much better. if this was a closed course Road Atlanta or Roebling Road car the higher hp would be the way to go.. but it's a street driven and short course run vehicle. I worked at EP for 5 years... while Ed Senf owned it.. he's now the dynotuner at Balanced and www.dynotuner.net he helped me build my 12 second Fiero...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...stgafieros.jpg
the sticker on the windsheild... www.dynotuner.net


-- oh yeah.. www.barrettraceway.com it's free to register.. it's a local forum.. like www.importsouth.com

i guess if you autocross and want low rpm pulling power, looks great! myself thinks that the low rpm power on the car stock is fine, and would like it not to feel like it runs out of air after 4000 rpm, but i guessit might take a little more to get the out of the engine.

my ideal scinereo: pull the head, drop in high comp pistons, port and flow the head, get cams ground to provide a fat flat torque curve, remove the VTCS system from the intake, full length header, full exhaust, intake. that would be enough for me. however, i'm looking at almost the cost of an FM turbo system.

yeah with a higher budget we could yank the head.. but we're woking on manufacturing bolt-ons. and seeing their improvement over stock... with all the add ons the begi avo turbo systems will respond even better.. the stock pistons are fine with the proper fuel management... 200FWHP isn't hard to get... under boost or spray. the exhaust is a tiny straw.. that makes a decent improvement.. the raises the low end and the upper end torque. I'll post those charts soon.

dude,
keep up the great work!

when you say driveability problems, or you inferring that it idels like crap and chokes when taking off from s stop? or the its got NO low end torque and feels like a B16-torqueless busy bee? thanx