Who else ran their amp wires up the center console?
September-5th-2002, 09:46 AM
#1
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
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Who else ran their amp wires up the center console?
I did - and now i'm getting noise! 
I ran the power line up the driver side and the speaker line up the passenger side of the center console. I figured that should be far enough apart that the speakers wouldn't pick anything up, but they're getting alternator noise (really only noticable when idling - the sub rumbles along with the engine), any kind of switch noise (ie: turning on the headlight switch results in a little 'pop' through the sub), and stereo noise (tracking through the cd, etc) and basically - I don't like it!!
Did anybody else have this problem? How did you fix it? Don't tell me I need a new HU!! I know that already but it's not happening for at least 6 months, so i want my stock deck to work as good as possible in the interim.
some background:
Stock HU
Phoenix Gold High Level to RCA converter for the speaker lines
Connected the remote wire to the acc. wire (pink/black) on the HU
300W Alpine Amp
2 10" Phoenix Gold subs
I'm also getting the standard 'pop' whenever you turn the stereo on/off or switch discs - but that should be solved when my relay arrives (rat shack was out of stock at the time so it had to be ordered).
And to top it all off, after spending all night installing the damn thing, i blew a fuse in the amp after about a half hour of playing with it and i didn't have any spares!!
Any and all help is appreciated!
I ran the power line up the driver side and the speaker line up the passenger side of the center console. I figured that should be far enough apart that the speakers wouldn't pick anything up, but they're getting alternator noise (really only noticable when idling - the sub rumbles along with the engine), any kind of switch noise (ie: turning on the headlight switch results in a little 'pop' through the sub), and stereo noise (tracking through the cd, etc) and basically - I don't like it!!
Did anybody else have this problem? How did you fix it? Don't tell me I need a new HU!! I know that already but it's not happening for at least 6 months, so i want my stock deck to work as good as possible in the interim.
some background:
Stock HU
Phoenix Gold High Level to RCA converter for the speaker lines
Connected the remote wire to the acc. wire (pink/black) on the HU
300W Alpine Amp
2 10" Phoenix Gold subs
I'm also getting the standard 'pop' whenever you turn the stereo on/off or switch discs - but that should be solved when my relay arrives (rat shack was out of stock at the time so it had to be ordered).
And to top it all off, after spending all night installing the damn thing, i blew a fuse in the amp after about a half hour of playing with it and i didn't have any spares!!
Any and all help is appreciated!
September-5th-2002, 10:30 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fenwick, Ontario
Posts: 270
Sounds like a short to me maybe a bad ground??
Your amp could have kicked the bucket too
When I had noise problems a while ago, it was because I was using crappy RCA's (I have problems with Y-spliiters too)
Also a solder joint could be broken on the signal input inside your amp which is a cheap fix.
Your high level converter could be causing the noise if you mounted it close to any electrical or magnetic things??
I ran my power wire and a pair of RCA's down the console with no noise problems (I got 9/10 on my noise score )
I try to help but it could be something completely different
Your amp could have kicked the bucket too
When I had noise problems a while ago, it was because I was using crappy RCA's (I have problems with Y-spliiters too)
Also a solder joint could be broken on the signal input inside your amp which is a cheap fix.
Your high level converter could be causing the noise if you mounted it close to any electrical or magnetic things??
I ran my power wire and a pair of RCA's down the console with no noise problems (I got 9/10 on my noise score
)I try to help but it could be something completely different
September-5th-2002, 11:27 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 999
I had the same situation - amp power up the center, RCAs and speaker wires routed away. I also had pops for other switch actuations.
When i added another big/beefy ground cable from the body to the neg on the bat, it eliminated >95% of the noise! It is barley discernable now
When i added another big/beefy ground cable from the body to the neg on the bat, it eliminated >95% of the noise! It is barley discernable now
September-5th-2002, 04:54 PM
#4
Do you ZooM?
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
Posts: 845
It's not the amp - i've abused it way more than what happened last night and it came through shining. That thing's solid. I did have a cracked cold solder join, but when I took it in to get it fixed, they redid the major ones, so I know it's not that either.
My personal thoughts are a bad ground or my high level converter.
When I bought the converter, the guy told me not to hook up the ground wire from it, and to just tape it off and leave it. I wonder if I hook it up, would it help?
P-Funk - you ran the ground cable all the way back to the battery? I thought you were supposed to make the ground wire as short as possible! I may consider doing that though if nobody sees any problems with it.
I think I'll try running the speaker wires further away from the power lines too. Hopefully that will help with the alternator noise anyway. Don't know about the pops though.
I gotta get rid of that alternator noise!! It's almost nauseating listening to that low level hum...
My personal thoughts are a bad ground or my high level converter.
When I bought the converter, the guy told me not to hook up the ground wire from it, and to just tape it off and leave it. I wonder if I hook it up, would it help?
P-Funk - you ran the ground cable all the way back to the battery? I thought you were supposed to make the ground wire as short as possible! I may consider doing that though if nobody sees any problems with it.
I think I'll try running the speaker wires further away from the power lines too. Hopefully that will help with the alternator noise anyway. Don't know about the pops though.
I gotta get rid of that alternator noise!! It's almost nauseating listening to that low level hum...
September-5th-2002, 05:19 PM
#5
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Posts: n/a
That noise is coming from your ground wires, make sure that the ground is metal to metal not around a bolt in a connector.
If that does not work try using a low line level input and send it to a preamp.
The popping can also be attributed to a loose connection in the power supply or the amp soilders coming loose.
I don't really think unless you are running bad or low line wires that the noise has to do with running the wires so close to the power wires.
Ground wires are almost more important then the power wires being tight.
If that does not work try using a low line level input and send it to a preamp.
The popping can also be attributed to a loose connection in the power supply or the amp soilders coming loose.
I don't really think unless you are running bad or low line wires that the noise has to do with running the wires so close to the power wires.
Ground wires are almost more important then the power wires being tight.
September-5th-2002, 05:27 PM
#6
Do you ZooM?
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Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
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the popping isn't random - that's why i know it's not loose connections or solder joins in the amp.
It happens when I switch something on or off, or change cds - anything that might cause a power blip.
I thought I had a pretty solid ground connection from my amp to the chassis, but maybe not? I tried to make the wires come loose, but they weren't moving. Wierd. I'll try beefing up the line to a lower gauge wire.
What do you mean about trying a 'low line level input and send it to a preamp'?
It happens when I switch something on or off, or change cds - anything that might cause a power blip.
I thought I had a pretty solid ground connection from my amp to the chassis, but maybe not? I tried to make the wires come loose, but they weren't moving. Wierd. I'll try beefing up the line to a lower gauge wire.
What do you mean about trying a 'low line level input and send it to a preamp'?
September-5th-2002, 06:50 PM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fenwick, Ontario
Posts: 270
Originally posted by sandman
P-Funk - you ran the ground cable all the way back to the battery? I thought you were supposed to make the ground wire as short as possible! I may consider doing that though if nobody sees any problems with it.
P-Funk - you ran the ground cable all the way back to the battery? I thought you were supposed to make the ground wire as short as possible! I may consider doing that though if nobody sees any problems with it.
After all, all that power going into your amp goes out and comes back through that thin little factory ground, definitely a must-do upgrade, and it will most likely reduce electrical strain seen by lights dimming when you're really pushing it. Helped for me
September-6th-2002, 12:25 AM
#8
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
grounding issues are always amazing to me-
Surface area and resistence are the issue in wiring. Given the sheer number of square inchs of surface area in a car chassis, which would have the most surface area, thus be more attractive to electron flow, a wire or the chassis?
Chassis.
I used to do star grounds, everything to one central point. And run ground to the amp and the star from the battery. Once I started to do SQ installs as a hobby I was amazed to discover the down and dirty quick grounds I would do to just try hardware worked as good and the fancy ones I did, even better at times.
So keep those grounds fat for surface area, and short to reduce resisitance, and make sure you are getting good grounds on all wiring.
Also check to see where the rca lines are compared to main wiring busses, and make sure you are not getting a grounding out effect on the rcas that would allow induced noise to enter the system.
Last you may want to consider a "noise filter" on the power wire. They are not mircles, but I have had luck with them of A/C turn on noised before.
Good luck and tell us all what finally kills the noise!
Surface area and resistence are the issue in wiring. Given the sheer number of square inchs of surface area in a car chassis, which would have the most surface area, thus be more attractive to electron flow, a wire or the chassis?
Chassis.
I used to do star grounds, everything to one central point. And run ground to the amp and the star from the battery. Once I started to do SQ installs as a hobby I was amazed to discover the down and dirty quick grounds I would do to just try hardware worked as good and the fancy ones I did, even better at times.
So keep those grounds fat for surface area, and short to reduce resisitance, and make sure you are getting good grounds on all wiring.
Also check to see where the rca lines are compared to main wiring busses, and make sure you are not getting a grounding out effect on the rcas that would allow induced noise to enter the system.
Last you may want to consider a "noise filter" on the power wire. They are not mircles, but I have had luck with them of A/C turn on noised before.
Good luck and tell us all what finally kills the noise!
September-6th-2002, 05:48 PM
#9
Do you ZooM?
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
Posts: 845
update
thanks for the tips everybody - I'll do the new ground from chassis to battery first and work my way in trying to solve the problem.
Another thing i discovered -
Along with all the noise and **** coming through the subs, i noticed that the clutch totally messes up too.. When launching like i normally do with the amp on, it seems like the clutch and engine don't mesh as well - MAJOR slippage/chatter/vibration as i put it into 1st gear. WTF is causing this?? I disabled my amp and it worked fine again..
WHYYYYYY 
Another thing i discovered -
Along with all the noise and **** coming through the subs, i noticed that the clutch totally messes up too.. When launching like i normally do with the amp on, it seems like the clutch and engine don't mesh as well - MAJOR slippage/chatter/vibration as i put it into 1st gear. WTF is causing this?? I disabled my amp and it worked fine again..
WHYYYYYY
September-6th-2002, 08:38 PM
#10
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 484
Re: Who else ran their amp wires up the center console?
Originally posted by sandman
And to top it all off, after spending all night installing the damn thing, i blew a fuse in the amp after about a half hour of playing with it and i didn't have any spares!!
And to top it all off, after spending all night installing the damn thing, i blew a fuse in the amp after about a half hour of playing with it and i didn't have any spares!!
Did you fasten your amp to bare metal with screws?
September-6th-2002, 10:33 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maine
Posts: 79
Wires
Wow, all of you guys have run all of your cables seperate? I have run the cables all in the same space with no spacings between them, I'm using all rockford rca cables, basic turn on wire, and scoche amp power kit. I braided all of the cables together like they do in rockford's riot gamma wires. It has proved to be no problem. I get no negligible noise from anywhere.
Just a thought, maybe you should try getting an inline ground loop isolator, or maybe take a look at your high end converter, maybe switch to a preamp.
Just a thought, maybe you should try getting an inline ground loop isolator, or maybe take a look at your high end converter, maybe switch to a preamp.
September-7th-2002, 01:52 AM
#12
Do you ZooM?
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
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preamp... sounds expensive..
I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this install cuz i'm sticking with the stock deck - this is only going to be a temp solution till i get my new HU... I'm assuming once that happens my need for the preamp would likely disappear too..
I'm gonna try vamping up the ground wire and checking all my connections... barring that, I'll see what to do next...
I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this install cuz i'm sticking with the stock deck - this is only going to be a temp solution till i get my new HU... I'm assuming once that happens my need for the preamp would likely disappear too..
I'm gonna try vamping up the ground wire and checking all my connections... barring that, I'll see what to do next...
September-7th-2002, 10:29 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kanata, Ontario
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Originally posted by sandman
...I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this install cuz i'm sticking with the stock deck
...I'm trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this install cuz i'm sticking with the stock deck
My suggestion after checking your grounds would be to adjust your LOC; assuming that it has a gain control, dial it all the way down and increase the deck volume to 4/5ths loud and then start increasing the amp gain up until you just hit your speaker's distortion level...that could reduce some of the hum you're hearing...if no gain control on the LOC, just try reducing the gain on the amp itself...
I plan on using the OEM deck as well for my upgrade...please keep us up to date on your progress!
Sandman, that transmission issue is a strange one!
I have no idea on that problem...some kind of computer chip issue I'm guessing...seek medical help on that one if it persists...can't see how the two are related...Good luck!
September-7th-2002, 11:53 AM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 484
Sandman, try this:
Do this quick test. Unplug ALL the RCAs going to your amp and have the engine running. Turn the gain up on the amp and see if you hear the cracking sounds. If yes, then either your power/ground is noisy -- might be bad ground contact (bad contact with the metal chassis or too long of a ground wire). Or your amp might be faulty. There was another guy here that swore that his amp was perfect, but then eventually it was the source of the noise, and i think it broke later too... so don't rule out any possibilities unless you've confirmed it (i.e. tested the amp in another car).
If you don't hear anything, then your power/ground should be alright. Then it must be from the HU/RCA/LOC.
Do this quick test. Unplug ALL the RCAs going to your amp and have the engine running. Turn the gain up on the amp and see if you hear the cracking sounds. If yes, then either your power/ground is noisy -- might be bad ground contact (bad contact with the metal chassis or too long of a ground wire). Or your amp might be faulty. There was another guy here that swore that his amp was perfect, but then eventually it was the source of the noise, and i think it broke later too... so don't rule out any possibilities unless you've confirmed it (i.e. tested the amp in another car).
If you don't hear anything, then your power/ground should be alright. Then it must be from the HU/RCA/LOC.
September-9th-2002, 01:56 AM
#15
Do you ZooM?
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Location: Edmonton, AB (That's in Canada, by the way)
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99% fixed!!
OK
First off a BIG shoutout to Aydu for his idea on the Relay. It got rid of all the stereo popping EXCEPT when I pop a cd out to switch it. The subs still pop when the cd ejects. But i get around that by switching to the radio before ejecting the disc. Problem solved!
I rechecked all my lines (power, grnd, spkr) to make sure they were connected and solid and they were.
Looks like a HUGE part of the problem with the switch noise, etc coming through my amp was the LOC ground line. The idiots at future **** told me not to connect it so I didn't the first time around. This time, I tried hooking it up and that got rid of 99% of the 'vehicle' noise that was being picked up through the amp.
NEVER EVER EVER trust the install guys at future shop! I have a feeling they told me not to hook it up in the hopes that I'd bring my car in for them to 'fix' it for a cool hundred bucks or something..
I still get a bit of alternator noise, and a bit o noise when the laser is tracking through the cd, but <fingers crossed>hopefully </fingers crossed> the addition of a new ground wire from chassis to battery and a thicker wire on the amp to chassis will get rid of that.
Barring that, I'll try putting a slightly beefier wire on the loc cuz the one that's on it is DAMN thin..
Boy, mazda sure doesn't give u a lot of length on the wiring harness to work with.. Even with trimming off the electrical tape and tubing. Its like the put the absolute minimum length they could get away with for that stupid thing. I've got one nasty looking setup on it now, with the LOC and the relay tapping the speaker and grnd lines and the remote wire tapping the accessory line...
Thanks everybody for your help! I'll keep you posted as to what I had to do to lose the remaining noise...
First off a BIG shoutout to Aydu for his idea on the Relay. It got rid of all the stereo popping EXCEPT when I pop a cd out to switch it. The subs still pop when the cd ejects. But i get around that by switching to the radio before ejecting the disc. Problem solved!
I rechecked all my lines (power, grnd, spkr) to make sure they were connected and solid and they were.
Looks like a HUGE part of the problem with the switch noise, etc coming through my amp was the LOC ground line. The idiots at future **** told me not to connect it so I didn't the first time around. This time, I tried hooking it up and that got rid of 99% of the 'vehicle' noise that was being picked up through the amp.
NEVER EVER EVER trust the install guys at future shop! I have a feeling they told me not to hook it up in the hopes that I'd bring my car in for them to 'fix' it for a cool hundred bucks or something..
I still get a bit of alternator noise, and a bit o noise when the laser is tracking through the cd, but <fingers crossed>hopefully </fingers crossed> the addition of a new ground wire from chassis to battery and a thicker wire on the amp to chassis will get rid of that.
Barring that, I'll try putting a slightly beefier wire on the loc cuz the one that's on it is DAMN thin..
Boy, mazda sure doesn't give u a lot of length on the wiring harness to work with.. Even with trimming off the electrical tape and tubing. Its like the put the absolute minimum length they could get away with for that stupid thing. I've got one nasty looking setup on it now, with the LOC and the relay tapping the speaker and grnd lines and the remote wire tapping the accessory line...
Thanks everybody for your help! I'll keep you posted as to what I had to do to lose the remaining noise...