soft brake pedal
 

i jusr bleeded all my brakes today ( twice ) and my brake pedal is very soft. i started from the rear right , rear left, front right and then last front left. I had someone pump the brakes 5 times and hold it down and then i unscrew the bleeder screw until bubble free fluid comes out. i did this atleast 4 times per wheel. i did this and then brake pedal is firm after i press it 2 times while the engine is off. then when i turn the engine on, the pedal drops to the floor when i step on it. the car still stops but the pedal goes pretty much all the way down. did i miss any steps in the bleeding process? I bleeded my previous protege (90 lx) in same fashion and didn't have this problem. Does it have to do with the ABS system? i drive a 2002 es by the way. any suggestions is appreciated
thanks

i used valvoline dot3 dot 4 fluid. yes i have abs and i bleeded them because after my first auto x the brakes got mushy. thought i could firm it up again by bleeding it but it didn't work. i'm assuming it has to do with the abs then ?

It sounds like you either drained the fluid reservoir and sucked air into the master cylinder, or sucked air back into one of the bleeder screws. You should make sure that the tubing attached to the bleeder screw(s) is full of fluid and pointed uphill from the screw. If not, you could have pulled air backwards into the system. Another possibility is that the person operating the brake pedal lifted their foot off the floor before a screw was fully closed. This can pull air backwards past the bleeder screw threads.

BTW if a brake system is properly bled, you should NOT have to pump the brakes to get a firm pedal. When the engine is off, the brake pedal should NOT have 1/2-2 inches of "give" like it does when the engine is on and the power brakes are operating. Assuming that you've pushed the brake pedal several times to drain all the engine vacuum, the pedal should be ROCK HARD on the first push. It should only move about 1/8 inch and then STOP DEAD. It should feel like pushing down on a hardwood floor :) Try pushing the brake pedal 10-12 times in a well-bled car with the engine off. This is the pedal feel that you want :D

Also, I looked in the service manual for my 99 Pro, and the bleeding procedure is the same regardless of whether or not the car has ABS.

i guess back to bleeding them for a 3rd time. I'll make sure i have fluid in the whole tube this time. thanks for your help.

another way is to have a glass jar of fluid with you under the car and put the tube in the jar....that way if the person IN the car accidently lets up...the only air its possible to suck back in is if there is any in the tube on its way out....otherwise it sucks brake fluid back in. :{D

That's how I always do it. I use a clear vinyl hose going up slightly from the bleeder screw, then down into a jar with clean brake fluid. Watch the tube and bleed until the fluid is clean an air bubble free. Pause every few times to make sure the master cylinder is full of fluid.

yup the brakes are better. this time i cut the clear tube i was using just enough so it was imersed in the clean brake fluid and made sure the whole tube was filled during the bleeding. is there any way to adjust the pedal height though?